BLU In Delve

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BLU in Delve
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 Asura.Highwynn
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By Asura.Highwynn 2014-10-22 14:39:04
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Parsed 42% against a Tsusumaru SAM in Yorcia, only NM I had trouble with was Wopket. SAM parsed 47%. I was actually beating the SAM on every NM up till MB, probably because I was cherry picking his Fudo's to close with CDC for light :p
CDC's were doing 8-11k with 11-14k lights. Tree was my favorite, since Sinker Drills and Thrashings were doing 7-8k.

I wonder if BLU could solo Wopket with like a 5 or 6 step Azure Lore skillchain? lol, I mean we do get Skillchain Bonuses!
 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-10-22 14:43:08
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So blu does beat conq war and libe drk ? I guess I was dead wrong about blu then.



Spreadsheet are far more accurate than parse, with the same person we always see result of what it is to be expected from spreadsheet (expect rng).
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-22 14:52:04
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So, we're back to the eyeball parse and "I beat a WAR once"?
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 Cerberus.Doctorugh
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By Cerberus.Doctorugh 2014-10-22 15:14:03
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People generally don't believe or care about a parse unless they are actually in them. Otherwise you get excuses about other dd is gimp or guy probably died or missing buffs. Even when you crush someone in a parse, they still whine. I've purposely rolled Sam roll and Blm roll to beat tsu SAMs on cor. Their response being "waaah No chaos roll isn't fair" and my response is typically something to the affect of "why would I gimp the best dd (me) in the party with rolls that don't benefit them, you don't see me whining about not Sharing your tp".....ah good times
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-10-22 15:24:02
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Asura.Ccl said: »
So blu does beat conq war and libe drk ? I guess I was dead wrong about blu then.



Spreadsheet are far more accurate than parse, with the same person we always see result of what it is to be expected from spreadsheet (expect rng).

SPreadsheets show you optimal DPS assuming nothing changes and all buffs are static.

It does not show you flash and accuracy down (blu has access to at least +150 more accuracy than sam those) WS's that can not Miss due to them being Magical if you use those over CDC (IE During Flash) something else I doubt spreadsheets can or do take into account.

Spreadshset data has in built erros within in them by nature than 1 miss calculation or 1 typo can skerer the entire thing, an update being misslooked at, the in ability to take each mobs status effects (IE we have tojil but we have nothing on there that compensates for their special abilities ie Wopket and flash, all stat down etc etc) these thing happen in a real environment and while I'll nver openly shout for a blu, BLU's are useful in these events and can bust out some high numbers when you buff them correctly.

I'm Sorry but Clubs Flash Nova spam on Wopket for 22k every single time is highly more consistent than SAMs 4 steps due to potential accuracy issues on WS (assuming non Mythic as AM3 changes things considerably on multihit procs on WS). I will grant you however that I would 9 times out of 10 take a good SAM over a good BLU but that doesn't mean I'd take a WAR over a Good BLU as the difference in Parse DPS wise isn't as large by comparison and the additional defensive enfeebles a BLU can utilize can push the parties overall DPS ahead of a Warriors direct DPS difference over a BLU's.

Then there's secondary factors such as ~ Bard *** up Sack pull or log hate and aggros a ***ton of monsters, blu's can (unlikely they have set) sleepga all those mobs and save a potential wipe. Again Spreadsheets are performed in a vacumm with no swapping to DD sets, not factoriing in level of buffs from protect / attack down effects factoring how much damage you do / dont take and whether it warrants a need to equip a PDT set or not.

BLU armors have natively high defense with the additional usage from playing with magical Weaponskills means no usage of Berserk and occasional Cocoon making them have in excess of 1250 Defense meaning next to no need to swap to DT or Hybrid Sets, it is thing's like these that push BLU ahead in real world environments.

This is especially useful with a less than perfect WHM (or a Dual boxed WHM) if you are using Sanguine Blade as well as apposed to Clubs and Flash Nova it is Highly Unlikely you will ever die to any NM when you do a ws for 20~22k (minus Meva and dark resist) that provides you with 50% damage dealt as HP, to the point you might be able to drop a WHM for a GEO healer? for additional buffs.

You could also just have the WHM brd act as a defacto Healer making a more optimal DPS party either through additional buffs or freeing up another DD Slot for another BLU.

Note: Sanguine Blade and Flash Nova do not have skillchain properties and therefore wouldn't interupt a SAM in said set up using 4 step light skillchains allowing said SAM to deal the DPS of 2~3 times his normal output solely down to this factor MAKING IT A HANDS DOWN WIN.

Although this would change the buffs the 2 GEO's might be using but even with Fury as one of the 4~6 buffs depending on Entrust meaning you could still give good quality buffs to both sets of DD with an obvious bias towards the Samurai, this means that although BLU is not the most Hardest hitting Job in the game, what it does to party dynamics no other job can do in a DD role allowing for larger than spreadsheet DPS can possibly Quantify.
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 Cerberus.Doctorugh
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By Cerberus.Doctorugh 2014-10-22 16:30:24
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Well Nova has SC properties, but w/e its still pretty boss. And this allows blu to intentionally interrupt the SAM, making the parse look better :P

There is so much spreadsheets cant taking into account. For example if have severve blind, I might decide to toss out Retinal Gaze for 4-5k, because the DPS is higher to do that at that moment. Or if severe slow, its a good time to CA-Efflux Sinker Drill. Generally I only do this when in some kind of competition for DD (not that it has a bearing on outcome). For anything that matters, a BLU stopping his DPS for Winds of Promy helps party DPS immensely.
 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-10-22 16:37:41
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Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
Well Nova has SC properties, but w/e its still pretty boss. And this allows blu to intentionally interrupt the SAM, making the parse look better :P

You could swap to Sanguine Blade however, good catch on Nova I missread it earlier.

My point is still valid however on anything not strong to Darkness.
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By Nazrious 2014-10-22 23:01:37
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Odin.Jassik said: »
So, we're back to the eyeball parse and "I beat a WAR once"?

One parse does not a proper sample make.

Spread Sheets are for picking best gear not which DD is best.

For Example If a Sam is eating too many Encumbered they die in parse, Blu Wins. The same hold true for the Blu.

Incursion is a great place to parse and get a feel for what happens in a real world environment. No constant Buffs, encumbered, no erase / nas 100% on point. Its a messy place, Blu excels in these sort of events as they can be self reliant and still offer support and DD. Heck there are times where a Blu can full time a DT set cus being ignored by healers, stay on debuffs / buffs and still place high in parses. NO other DD can do that.

Really Blu is shot in the foot by its own ability, since support see blu and think "Hey one less person for me to work on."
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-10-22 23:25:03
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Cerberus.Conagh said: »
lot of stuff

If Wopket debuff still land on you, I have bad news for you. It's ok blu is the best job and spreadsheet are bad so we should eyeball and trust parse my bad.
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By Sylph.Oraen 2014-10-23 00:04:03
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This topic has far outlived its time. BLU is a good choice for a lot of Delve content, but will lose in DPS to a SAM. How have you been talking about this for 8 god damn pages? I love BLU to death but it is not top DPS at the moment. The tricks it has justifies its position in a group, we've established this. Now can we just let this die?
 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-10-23 00:11:35
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Asura.Ccl said: »
Cerberus.Conagh said: »
lot of stuff

If Wopket debuff still land on you, I have bad news for you. It's ok blu is the best job and spreadsheet are bad so we should eyeball and trust parse my bad.

It's more a mater of the fact it can didn't say would.

And you totally skipped the part at the end about Skillchains and allowing a SAM to 4 step uninterrupted by using magical ws Sanguine blade but OK! Lets argue stuff while ignoring what people said.
 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-10-23 00:12:20
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Sylph.Oraen said: »
This topic has far outlived its time. BLU is a good choice for a lot of Delve content, but will lose in DPS to a SAM. How have you been talking about this for 8 god damn pages? I love BLU to death but it is not top DPS at the moment. The tricks it has justifies its position in a group, we've established this. Now can we just let this die?

5 pages was about SAM lol
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-10-23 00:30:22
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Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
COR (BLM roll+40mab, Hunters), COR (SAM roll, tact) , Blue mage (benethic Typhoon - 10mdb), GEO (Indi-Malaise, Geo-haste) Geo (Acumen +32mab, Eva down), WHM (boost agi)

Just as a start I'll work with COR: Leaden Salute vs mob with 150 agi

AGI 273
MAB +193
Dark Magic damage (head + ring) x1.33
/war +20ftp + ear (+25ftp)

2.93(mab)x 1.33(Dark damage multipler) x 1.05 (WSD back) x [2(273-150) + 5.215 x(204+273)] / 0.5(the magic defense now floored from malaise+typhoon) = 22,364

Now mind you this isnt a mythic COR with a LS bonus.

Blu and geo can do similar Flash Nova damage.

Sushi+hunters+evadown is enough for OAT40 weapons to cap hit rate for most anything. This combined with tact and sam roll, allow for rapid fire WS's.

Does it work, yes and its fun. If you run into a dark resistant mob, Wildfire (a little below Leaden) + flash nova works well enough. If the mob has high meva you can compinsate with RDM roll and geo-macc. I only had one problem with this setup and that was 129 megaboss on incursion. His meva was wildly high. I dont know if that is standard or has to do with the mobs he summoned, because it worked on lower level megabosses.



I dont troll....generally speaking, but sometimes the mood strikes me


Cor isn't bad on certain targets, but using more than 1 is just a waste of space. If you want epeen leaden, you may as well bring a sch.

COR's greatest strength is attack buff and def down, any other buffs aren't huge increase, so it's wasting dmg to use magic heavy setup.

Idk what kind of sam you pt with that can't outparse a cor, but not giving them chaos is just wrong.....

Gimp sam getting chaos is still a bigger increase than pimp cor getting mab, unless attack capped. Or you can do roll rotation.
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-10-23 00:58:04
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Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
COR (BLM roll+40mab, Hunters), COR (SAM roll, tact) , Blue mage (benethic Typhoon - 10mdb), GEO (Indi-Malaise, Geo-haste) Geo (Acumen +32mab, Eva down), WHM (boost agi)

Just as a start I'll work with COR: Leaden Salute vs mob with 150 agi

AGI 273
MAB +193
Dark Magic damage (head + ring) x1.33
/war +20ftp + ear (+25ftp)

2.93(mab)x 1.33(Dark damage multipler) x 1.05 (WSD back) x [2(273-150) + 5.215 x(204+273)] / 0.5(the magic defense now floored from malaise+typhoon) = 22,364

Now mind you this isnt a mythic COR with a LS bonus.

Blu and geo can do similar Flash Nova damage.

Sushi+hunters+evadown is enough for OAT40 weapons to cap hit rate for most anything. This combined with tact and sam roll, allow for rapid fire WS's.

Does it work, yes and its fun. If you run into a dark resistant mob, Wildfire (a little below Leaden) + flash nova works well enough. If the mob has high meva you can compinsate with RDM roll and geo-macc. I only had one problem with this setup and that was 129 megaboss on incursion. His meva was wildly high. I dont know if that is standard or has to do with the mobs he summoned, because it worked on lower level megabosses.



I dont troll....generally speaking, but sometimes the mood strikes me


Cor isn't bad on certain targets, but using more than 1 is just a waste of space. If you want epeen leaden, you may as well bring a sch.

COR's greatest strength is attack buff and def down, any other buffs aren't huge increase, so it's wasting dmg to use magic heavy setup.

Idk what kind of sam you pt with that can't outparse a cor, but not giving them chaos is just wrong.....

Gimp sam getting chaos is still a bigger increase than pimp cor getting mab, unless attack capped. Or you can do roll rotation.

IDK 72k Damage Leaden Salutes in Skirmish is funny :3
 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-10-23 06:50:31
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Cerberus.Conagh said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
COR (BLM roll+40mab, Hunters), COR (SAM roll, tact) , Blue mage (benethic Typhoon - 10mdb), GEO (Indi-Malaise, Geo-haste) Geo (Acumen +32mab, Eva down), WHM (boost agi)

Just as a start I'll work with COR: Leaden Salute vs mob with 150 agi

AGI 273
MAB +193
Dark Magic damage (head + ring) x1.33
/war +20ftp + ear (+25ftp)

2.93(mab)x 1.33(Dark damage multipler) x 1.05 (WSD back) x [2(273-150) + 5.215 x(204+273)] / 0.5(the magic defense now floored from malaise+typhoon) = 22,364

Now mind you this isnt a mythic COR with a LS bonus.

Blu and geo can do similar Flash Nova damage.

Sushi+hunters+evadown is enough for OAT40 weapons to cap hit rate for most anything. This combined with tact and sam roll, allow for rapid fire WS's.

Does it work, yes and its fun. If you run into a dark resistant mob, Wildfire (a little below Leaden) + flash nova works well enough. If the mob has high meva you can compinsate with RDM roll and geo-macc. I only had one problem with this setup and that was 129 megaboss on incursion. His meva was wildly high. I dont know if that is standard or has to do with the mobs he summoned, because it worked on lower level megabosses.



I dont troll....generally speaking, but sometimes the mood strikes me


Cor isn't bad on certain targets, but using more than 1 is just a waste of space. If you want epeen leaden, you may as well bring a sch.

COR's greatest strength is attack buff and def down, any other buffs aren't huge increase, so it's wasting dmg to use magic heavy setup.

Idk what kind of sam you pt with that can't outparse a cor, but not giving them chaos is just wrong.....

Gimp sam getting chaos is still a bigger increase than pimp cor getting mab, unless attack capped. Or you can do roll rotation.

IDK 72k Damage Leaden Salutes in Skirmish is funny :3


This is delve thread though.
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By Cerberus.Doctorugh 2014-10-23 06:54:53
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Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Cerberus.Conagh said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
COR (BLM roll+40mab, Hunters), COR (SAM roll, tact) , Blue mage (benethic Typhoon - 10mdb), GEO (Indi-Malaise, Geo-haste) Geo (Acumen +32mab, Eva down), WHM (boost agi)

Just as a start I'll work with COR: Leaden Salute vs mob with 150 agi

AGI 273
MAB +193
Dark Magic damage (head + ring) x1.33
/war +20ftp + ear (+25ftp)

2.93(mab)x 1.33(Dark damage multipler) x 1.05 (WSD back) x [2(273-150) + 5.215 x(204+273)] / 0.5(the magic defense now floored from malaise+typhoon) = 22,364

Now mind you this isnt a mythic COR with a LS bonus.

Blu and geo can do similar Flash Nova damage.

Sushi+hunters+evadown is enough for OAT40 weapons to cap hit rate for most anything. This combined with tact and sam roll, allow for rapid fire WS's.

Does it work, yes and its fun. If you run into a dark resistant mob, Wildfire (a little below Leaden) + flash nova works well enough. If the mob has high meva you can compinsate with RDM roll and geo-macc. I only had one problem with this setup and that was 129 megaboss on incursion. His meva was wildly high. I dont know if that is standard or has to do with the mobs he summoned, because it worked on lower level megabosses.



I dont troll....generally speaking, but sometimes the mood strikes me


Cor isn't bad on certain targets, but using more than 1 is just a waste of space. If you want epeen leaden, you may as well bring a sch.

COR's greatest strength is attack buff and def down, any other buffs aren't huge increase, so it's wasting dmg to use magic heavy setup.

Idk what kind of sam you pt with that can't outparse a cor, but not giving them chaos is just wrong.....

Gimp sam getting chaos is still a bigger increase than pimp cor getting mab, unless attack capped. Or you can do roll rotation.

IDK 72k Damage Leaden Salutes in Skirmish is funny :3


This is delve thread though.
This is now a COR epeen thread, sam had its turn and COR DPS in the party I discribed above is better than SAM DPS in its ideal party setup. I cant help that everyone is doing it wrong by working physical damage if its not magically resistant.
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-10-23 08:09:17
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Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Cerberus.Conagh said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
COR (BLM roll+40mab, Hunters), COR (SAM roll, tact) , Blue mage (benethic Typhoon - 10mdb), GEO (Indi-Malaise, Geo-haste) Geo (Acumen +32mab, Eva down), WHM (boost agi)

Just as a start I'll work with COR: Leaden Salute vs mob with 150 agi

AGI 273
MAB +193
Dark Magic damage (head + ring) x1.33
/war +20ftp + ear (+25ftp)


Now mind you this isnt a mythic COR with a LS bonus.

Blu and geo can do similar Flash Nova damage.

Sushi+hunters+evadown is enough for OAT40 weapons to cap hit rate for most anything. This combined with tact and sam roll, allow for rapid fire WS's.

Does it work, yes and its fun. If you run into a dark resistant mob, Wildfire (a little below Leaden) + flash nova works well enough. If the mob has high meva you can compinsate with RDM roll and geo-macc. I only had one problem with this setup and that was 129 megaboss on incursion. His meva was wildly high. I dont know if that is standard or has to do with the mobs he summoned, because it worked on lower level megabosses.



I dont troll....generally speaking, but sometimes the mood strikes me


Cor isn't bad on certain targets, but using more than 1 is just a waste of space. If you want epeen leaden, you may as well bring a sch.

COR's greatest strength is attack buff and def down, any other buffs aren't huge increase, so it's wasting dmg to use magic heavy setup.

Idk what kind of sam you pt with that can't outparse a cor, but not giving them chaos is just wrong.....

Gimp sam getting chaos is still a bigger increase than pimp cor getting mab, unless attack capped. Or you can do roll rotation.

IDK 72k Damage Leaden Salutes in Skirmish is funny :3


This is delve thread though.
This is now a COR epeen thread, sam had its turn and COR DPS in the party I discribed above is better than SAM DPS in its ideal party setup. I cant help that everyone is doing it wrong by working physical damage if its not magically resistant.

It's a COR epeen thread because it seems that you're inflating WS numbers unless I'm understanding MDB wrong....idk how much AGI/MAB you can get from buffs since I'm not familiar with GEO/boost buffs and too lazy to check, but using AGI 273 and MAB +193 + WAR sub, I'm only getting 11k leaden at 1000 TP. Did you double the math result with MDB check?

Your "ideal" pt setup is also done by sacrificing 2 extra pt slot to boost magical dmg. As you can see, one roll(tact) has extremely minimal increase with an OAT offhand due to how fast you can WS.

I can argue that the extra pt slot you sacrificed for additional buff for magic dmg can be changed into another physical DD for even higher pt output..

If you pt with 1~2 SAM, you really shouldn't ignore chaos roll completely regardless how they parse. Chaos roll is over 27% increase on SAM using avg number(so higher if you roll a 11 or snake eye/fold up), it works on multiple DD if you have more than 1 SAM. Overall it adds more output than MAB roll on COR. If you really must buff yourself you could just do 3 rolls, just refresh them during downtime or pull.
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By Cerberus.Doctorugh 2014-10-23 08:23:37
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MDB starts at 100, malaise/BT drops it to 50%....ie double damage. The DD are CORx2,BLU and GEO can also put out high flash nova numbers 15k or so with this setup. SO thats 5 DD vs 3.....its not even close.

How about this, you math the max DPS a SAM can get with a SAMx3,COR,BRD,WHM and I'll CORx2,BLU,GEOx2,WHM.
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By Nazrious 2014-10-23 09:58:22
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Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
MDB starts at 100, malaise/BT drops it to 50%....ie double damage. The DD are CORx2,BLU and GEO can also put out high flash nova numbers 15k or so with this setup. SO thats 5 DD vs 3.....its not even close.

How about this, you math the max DPS a SAM can get with a SAMx3,COR,BRD,WHM and I'll CORx2,BLU,GEOx2,WHM.


You could have a setup of whm x 6 pulling crazy numbers and raping content. You could have it on video on 6 people's parse logs to prove it. You will still be ignored /argued with / proven wrong by spreadsheets.

I understand that this game allows for various setups but many people wan't that cookie cutter or GTFO, its partly due to the WoW refugees life boating on XI.
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By Asura.Highwynn 2014-10-23 10:31:37
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Where are you getting this 22k Flash Nova number from out of curiosity? With MAB trait set, 5/5 Hagondes with ~23-28 aug MAB, Friomisi/Crematio/Dosis/Eddy/Strendu Ring/Cornflower/Yamabuki-no-obi/Acumen Ring/one aug'd delve club 119 and the other Bolebunga(still working on second staff), Flash Novas aren't doing anywhere NEAR 22k. Sure I can make some improvements here and there for rings or slightly better aug's but it isn't going to be giving me an extra 14k damage. Or does the majority come from the mob's weakness and/or debuffs?
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By Nazrious 2014-10-23 10:44:43
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Asura.Highwynn said: »
Where are you getting this 22k Flash Nova number from out of curiosity? With MAB trait set, 5/5 Hagondes with ~23-28 aug MAB, Friomisi/Crematio/Dosis/Eddy/Strendu Ring/Cornflower/Yamabuki-no-obi/Acumen Ring/one aug'd delve club 119 and the other Bolebunga(still working on second staff), Flash Novas aren't doing anywhere NEAR 22k. Sure I can make some improvements here and there for rings or slightly better aug's but it isn't going to be giving me an extra 14k damage. Or does the majority come from the mob's weakness and/or debuffs?


Mob weak / buffs thus the pumping of buffs with cors etc.

There are many "Holy ***." moments to be hand in this game from trying out different setups and Jobs, but this ain't 2007 anymore so GL finding people who are willing to bother with it.
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-10-23 10:52:29
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Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
MDB starts at 100, malaise/BT drops it to 50%....ie double damage. The DD are CORx2,BLU and GEO can also put out high flash nova numbers 15k or so with this setup. SO thats 5 DD vs 3.....its not even close.

How about this, you math the max DPS a SAM can get with a SAMx3,COR,BRD,WHM and I'll CORx2,BLU,GEOx2,WHM.


I thought it's (100 + Magic Attack Bonus)/(100 + Magic Defense Bonus).


Nazrious said: »
Asura.Highwynn said: »
Where are you getting this 22k Flash Nova number from out of curiosity? With MAB trait set, 5/5 Hagondes with ~23-28 aug MAB, Friomisi/Crematio/Dosis/Eddy/Strendu Ring/Cornflower/Yamabuki-no-obi/Acumen Ring/one aug'd delve club 119 and the other Bolebunga(still working on second staff), Flash Novas aren't doing anywhere NEAR 22k. Sure I can make some improvements here and there for rings or slightly better aug's but it isn't going to be giving me an extra 14k damage. Or does the majority come from the mob's weakness and/or debuffs?


Mob weak / buffs thus the pumping of buffs with cors etc.

There are many "Holy ***." moments to be hand in this game from trying out different setups and Jobs, but this ain't 2007 anymore so GL finding people who are willing to bother with it.

Not sure why's this relevant to questioning Doctorugh's math.
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By Cerberus.Doctorugh 2014-10-23 10:56:45
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Yeah, as I stated before, people dont understand game mechanics and how to use them to their advantage. Unless people are actually in party to see it, they wont believe things like parses, or logs, or even math. I blame a poor public school system. No one is taught how to think (or do simple math!) for themselves, only to replicate what is put in front of them.

And to Highway: Malise from geo and Benethic Typhoon will double the damage you currently put out. BLM roll, Acumen, and potentially Aurastorm (rare) will add alot more.
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By Cerberus.Doctorugh 2014-10-23 10:58:17
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Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
MDB starts at 100, malaise/BT drops it to 50%....ie double damage. The DD are CORx2,BLU and GEO can also put out high flash nova numbers 15k or so with this setup. SO thats 5 DD vs 3.....its not even close.

How about this, you math the max DPS a SAM can get with a SAMx3,COR,BRD,WHM and I'll CORx2,BLU,GEOx2,WHM.


I thought it's (100 + Magic Attack Bonus)/(100 + Magic Defense Bonus).


Nazrious said: »
Asura.Highwynn said: »
Where are you getting this 22k Flash Nova number from out of curiosity? With MAB trait set, 5/5 Hagondes with ~23-28 aug MAB, Friomisi/Crematio/Dosis/Eddy/Strendu Ring/Cornflower/Yamabuki-no-obi/Acumen Ring/one aug'd delve club 119 and the other Bolebunga(still working on second staff), Flash Novas aren't doing anywhere NEAR 22k. Sure I can make some improvements here and there for rings or slightly better aug's but it isn't going to be giving me an extra 14k damage. Or does the majority come from the mob's weakness and/or debuffs?


Mob weak / buffs thus the pumping of buffs with cors etc.

There are many "Holy ***." moments to be hand in this game from trying out different setups and Jobs, but this ain't 2007 anymore so GL finding people who are willing to bother with it.

Not sure why's this relevant to questioning Doctorugh's math.

Yeah its 100+Mab/100+MDB, but many mobs dont have any MDB (leaving it at 100 and Malise/BT drops the 100 to 50 (ie doubling)
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-10-23 11:04:44
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Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
MDB starts at 100, malaise/BT drops it to 50%....ie double damage. The DD are CORx2,BLU and GEO can also put out high flash nova numbers 15k or so with this setup. SO thats 5 DD vs 3.....its not even close.

How about this, you math the max DPS a SAM can get with a SAMx3,COR,BRD,WHM and I'll CORx2,BLU,GEOx2,WHM.


I thought it's (100 + Magic Attack Bonus)/(100 + Magic Defense Bonus).


Nazrious said: »
Asura.Highwynn said: »
Where are you getting this 22k Flash Nova number from out of curiosity? With MAB trait set, 5/5 Hagondes with ~23-28 aug MAB, Friomisi/Crematio/Dosis/Eddy/Strendu Ring/Cornflower/Yamabuki-no-obi/Acumen Ring/one aug'd delve club 119 and the other Bolebunga(still working on second staff), Flash Novas aren't doing anywhere NEAR 22k. Sure I can make some improvements here and there for rings or slightly better aug's but it isn't going to be giving me an extra 14k damage. Or does the majority come from the mob's weakness and/or debuffs?


Mob weak / buffs thus the pumping of buffs with cors etc.

There are many "Holy ***." moments to be hand in this game from trying out different setups and Jobs, but this ain't 2007 anymore so GL finding people who are willing to bother with it.

Not sure why's this relevant to questioning Doctorugh's math.

Yeah its 100+Mab/100+MDB, but many mobs dont have any MDB (leaving it at 100 and Malise/BT drops the 100 to 50 (ie doubling)

If there are no MDB, wouldn't it be 100+MAB/100+0 instead? So MAB multiplier stays at 2.93.
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-10-23 11:28:05
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Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
MDB starts at 100, malaise/BT drops it to 50%....ie double damage. The DD are CORx2,BLU and GEO can also put out high flash nova numbers 15k or so with this setup. SO thats 5 DD vs 3.....its not even close.

How about this, you math the max DPS a SAM can get with a SAMx3,COR,BRD,WHM and I'll CORx2,BLU,GEOx2,WHM.


I thought it's (100 + Magic Attack Bonus)/(100 + Magic Defense Bonus).


Nazrious said: »
Asura.Highwynn said: »
Where are you getting this 22k Flash Nova number from out of curiosity? With MAB trait set, 5/5 Hagondes with ~23-28 aug MAB, Friomisi/Crematio/Dosis/Eddy/Strendu Ring/Cornflower/Yamabuki-no-obi/Acumen Ring/one aug'd delve club 119 and the other Bolebunga(still working on second staff), Flash Novas aren't doing anywhere NEAR 22k. Sure I can make some improvements here and there for rings or slightly better aug's but it isn't going to be giving me an extra 14k damage. Or does the majority come from the mob's weakness and/or debuffs?


Mob weak / buffs thus the pumping of buffs with cors etc.

There are many "Holy ***." moments to be hand in this game from trying out different setups and Jobs, but this ain't 2007 anymore so GL finding people who are willing to bother with it.

Not sure why's this relevant to questioning Doctorugh's math.

Yeah its 100+Mab/100+MDB, but many mobs dont have any MDB (leaving it at 100 and Malise/BT drops the 100 to 50 (ie doubling)


Doctorugh, if MDB can go negative like you claimed, can you please explain why in this wopket vid everyone only do normal number leaden with MDB- from GEO, thanks.

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/31312/the-pirates-lair-a-guide-to-corsair/60/
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By Cerberus.Doctorugh 2014-10-23 12:13:29
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You arent going negative, you are lowering a base (the base being 100).

I cant explain why other ppl are unable to do whatever.

If you have a COR and a geo friend go test it yourself, its the only way ppl learn around here. Use QD on a mob then maliase/benthic typhoon and QD.....double damage.

Apparently math and spoon feeding info on how to excel isnt enough or your mind is so drowned in conspiracy that you believe some internet person (me) wants to fabricate leaden salute damage on game for some sinister unknown purpose.

MAB stands for "magic attack bonus". This MAB is at 100 before any traits,buffs,eq, or DEBUFFS

MDB stand for "Magic defense bonus". This MDB is at 100 before any buffs,traits,eq or DEBUFFS

And think about it....what would be the purpose of MDB- if it didnt actually do something.
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-10-23 12:26:01
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Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
You arent going negative, you are lowering a base (the base being 100).

I cant explain why other ppl are unable to do whatever.

If you have a COR and a geo friend go test it yourself, its the only way ppl learn around here. Use QD on a mob then maliase/benthic typhoon and QD.....double damage.

Apparently math and spoon feeding info on how to excel isnt enough or your mind is so drowned in conspiracy that you believe some internet person (me) wants to fabricate leaden salute damage on game for some sinister unknown purpose.

MAB stands for "magic attack bonus". This MAB is at 100 before any traits,buffs,eq, or DEBUFFS

MDB stand for "Magic defense bonus". This MDB is at 100 before any buffs,traits,eq or DEBUFFS

And think about it....what would be the purpose of MDB- if it didnt actually do something.

Lower than the base is equal to negative.

I have a legit question toward your claim that MDB can go lower than base(using your own word) with MDB-, I even linked a video with GEO MDB- debuff doing normal dmg, and your only response is to personal attack?

I questioned your math, it has nothing to do with my believe that you have certain purpose, it's just that after digging around the web I see zero info regarding whether it can go lower than base or not, that's why I asked you for a proof/testing, and I believe I've been fairly polite about it.

If you want to post math in a discussion, you'd have to accept the fact that other ppl may question it.

I didn't claim whether MDB- do anything or not, I only questioned whether it can go lower when the mob is sitting at 0. I thought it only has an effect when the mob actually has MDB.

If the mob has 20 MDB, -10 MDB makes it 10 MDB, but I do not know if the mob has 0 MDB, -10 MDB makes it go lower than base or not.

So testing on a mob doesn't really help this case unless it's confirmed the mob really has 0 MDB. I've tested BT+ Sanguine, and it does increase dmg, but it doesn't prove anything unless it's confirmed the target has 0 MDB to begin with.

If another vid showing leaden only do 5~7k with GEO MDB- debuff, then it's safe to assume your assumption doesn't apply in real life unless they're using wrong debuff or debuff not hitting the NM.
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By Carbuncle.Skudo 2014-10-23 12:33:49
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Normal mob without MDB: MAB/1.

Normal mob with MDB-20: MAB/(1 - 0.2) = MAB/0.8 = 1.25 * MAB.

Can easily be tested by tossing Malaise at random mobs. Damage goes up by a bunch, even though they have "neutral" MDB.
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-10-23 12:41:48
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Either our equation is wrong, or mdb can't go negative; otherwise we could divide by zero and break the server!
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