October Job Adjustments

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October Job Adjustments
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-10-01 08:57:12
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Phoenix.Mudrunner said: »
We already had a year to work on our ranking for ergon. Going every day isn't needed. Just every few days. Things like these long term goals are what keep most people here.
That's great if you were one of the scrubs who needed to do them for bayld/exp/whatever when they were new. If you were keeping up with current content, they were just boring and a waste of time until Ergon came out. Still boring, 8 months of doing content that basically amounts to fetch quests to be able to turn in currency that could be obtained in less than a month. At least assault had character, these are just copy-paste all the way up.

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On a realistic note reducing cooldowns would be an option. I don't see splitting things up or removing having to redo assults. Even a reduction to 20 hours on tags and maybe adding a way to obtain a 6th would be a large bonus. Maybe in the future we can see some iLVL einherjar/assaults/nyzule with higher currency returns. These are realistic options.
I wasn't saying it's realistic, I was saying it'd be an improvement on the current system. I like your idea better though.

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Funny that doesn't change all the other requirements. A friend and I are both finishing this week. We didn't see the exploit of salvage. I know some others that finished recently and they didn't see the exploit either. So not everyone in town just magically pooped out mythics from this.
If you bought alex, you benefitted. It was going for 12k in a similar economy before exploit started to get out, it lasted for years. It only hit critical mass for the last couple months before patch. A 40% price drop and massive availability increase is a pretty huge reduction in the objective.

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Can't wait to see those people banned.
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Obviously didn't, and isn't ever going to happen. They got away with it, completely unpunished.
3 day suspensions were handed out to some of them, others didn't get punished at all. Pretty unlikely they're gonna go back months later and decide they were too light on people.
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By Highwynd 2014-10-01 09:10:42
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Eragons wouldn't be as bad if the KIs that reduce their cooldown weren't rewards from getting Legend rank -_-

The KI for reduced imprimatur cooldown should be purchasable from NPC's, questable, or mission rewards. The two KI could shave weeks off of getting legend in every rank if they could be obtained early but I think you only get 1 for doing all assignments up to Advisor and then the last for completing all assignments up to legend(pointless). Presumably there will be a final KI(bron e and silver exist) so there ought to be a gold, probably for final coalition assignments(they'll probably add a few to Inner Rakaznar, they did for inventor's and peacekeeper's i think, even after legend) or it will be a final SoA reward.
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-10-01 09:15:21
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Yup with ergon they managed to make something far worst than mythic gate wise; I still can't believe people said it was a good idea to have an 8 months gate.
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 Sylph.Traxus
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By Sylph.Traxus 2014-10-01 09:15:27
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Leviathan.Mckeag said: »
Can't wait to see those people banned.

They already were, for 24-72hrs, mythic/alex not removed.

Phoenix.Mudrunner said: »
Funny that doesn't change all the other requirements. A friend and I are both finishing this week. We didn't see the exploit of salvage. I know some others that finished recently and they didn't see the exploit either. So not everyone in town just magically pooped out mythics from this.

The only requirements that afaik couldn't be gotten around were the NM kill titles (takes like what, 20 total minutes to complete?), and the einherjar points (and I wouldn't be surprised if there was an exploit there too I didn't know about.)

And if you bought any alex post-SoA, your mythics are not really legitimate. The reason alex had the volume/price it did was because the vast majority of it was duped.
 Bahamut.Malothar
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By Bahamut.Malothar 2014-10-01 09:22:24
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
That's great if you were one of the scrubs who needed to do them for bayld/exp/whatever when they were new. If you were keeping up with current content, they were just boring and a waste of time until Ergon came out.
We knew mythic equivalents were coming out for them soon after (before? I forget) SoA came out. I still don't see how anyone could not of had the foresight to realize these would be required in some capacity. Sure, it doesn't change anything for new/returning players, they're pretty screwed with it, and at some point, a change (multiple even, HPBs will be hell to get once SoA is done with) will need to be made so that the gating for it isn't so extensive. But I've never seen them complaining about it, it's the one's who've played for years upon years that apparently couldn't see an obvious requirement to something designed similarly to Mythics.
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By Phoenix.Mudrunner 2014-10-01 09:23:36
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Sylph.Traxus said: »
Leviathan.Mckeag said: »
Can't wait to see those people banned.

They already were, for 24-72hrs, mythic/alex not removed.

Phoenix.Mudrunner said: »
Funny that doesn't change all the other requirements. A friend and I are both finishing this week. We didn't see the exploit of salvage. I know some others that finished recently and they didn't see the exploit either. So not everyone in town just magically pooped out mythics from this.

The only requirements that afaik couldn't be gotten around were the NM kill titles (takes like what, 20 total minutes to complete?), and the einherjar points (and I wouldn't be surprised if there was an exploit there too I didn't know about.)

And if you bought any alex post-SoA, your mythics are not really legitimate. The reason alex had the volume/price it did was because the vast majority of it was duped.

You forgot the worst part of assaults and tokens.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-10-01 09:28:59
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Bahamut.Malothar said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
That's great if you were one of the scrubs who needed to do them for bayld/exp/whatever when they were new. If you were keeping up with current content, they were just boring and a waste of time until Ergon came out.
We knew mythic equivalents were coming out for them soon after (before? I forget) SoA came out. I still don't see how anyone could not of had the foresight to realize these would be required in some capacity. Sure, it doesn't change anything for new/returning players, they're pretty screwed with it, and at some point, a change (multiple even, HPBs will be hell to get once SoA is done with) will need to be made so that the gating for it isn't so extensive. But I've never seen them complaining about it, it's the one's who've played for years upon years that apparently couldn't see an obvious requirement to something designed similarly to Mythics.
you did them and it worked out well for you, that's great

i don't think it's really reasonable to say it was obvious, 8 months is 4x as long as mythic's gateway(over double as long as first mythic even).. a lot of people were assuming the new mythics would come from the old system as well up until we actually got info

new players aren't complaining because they aren't at that step yet, old players are because HPB and an afternoon's plasm is trivial compared to 8 months of doing something that makes mythic reqs look interesting

i'll still do it, but it's an obscene lock.. we don't even know that the game will still have players in 8 months
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By Bahamut.Malothar 2014-10-01 09:35:22
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
i don't think it's really reasonable to say it was obvious
The second they called them "mythic equivalents," I felt it was pretty obvious that they weren't going to be mythics from ToAU, and would be from something in SoA. Lo and behold, SoA had multiple currency types just like ToAU, and had multiple varying types of content of which to get items. While it wasn't a copy paste of ToAU's content and systems, I thought it was pretty clear that Coalition ranks would equal Assaults in the system. Granted, I was just as surprised that they required all 6 at Legend, but had prepped for it regardless. To call it an 8 month gate due to nearly 0 progress was just not prepping at all.

Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
new players aren't complaining because they aren't at that step yet, old players are because HPB and an afternoon's plasm is trivial compared to 8 months of doing something that makes mythic reqs look interesting

Maybe skirmish bayld runs while 6 boxing makes it trivial, but HPBs are far from trivial for most going after an Ergon. Since making Idris, I know a fair few that have taken up the task, and all are hung at that point. The raw bayld is out there, but getting people to convert is still incredibly difficult, unless you're prepared to shell out 650 mil for your Ergon.
 Leviathan.Mckeag
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By Leviathan.Mckeag 2014-10-01 09:38:53
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Wait you mean to tell me they only got a three day slap on the wrist.... smh
 Phoenix.Mudrunner
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By Phoenix.Mudrunner 2014-10-01 09:39:46
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And the price reduction "benefit" as going rate once was 10k and went down to 8k is an overall saving (if only buying at lower the new rate)(Phoenix server) you "saved" 60m so 20% of what once cost 300m. At that point what's the difference? You are still farming Alex for income while doing more einherjar/assaults+tokens.

REMs need to have a reward to obtaining them. Not be the "trick or treat" handout they have made so much SOA content. They need to hold superior for the effort spent in obtaining them with mythic being the highest reward for the effort that took place to obtain. Delve/AA/skirmish any drop weapons should be close to their REM counterparts. Not superior then REM. SE did announce REM updates to be coming but they are trying to figure out how to properly upgrade and balance then. Time can only tell for our ever aging MMO. So when sitting in your mog house crying you don't have something. Or how hard things are. Be real with your ideas that you blat out of how things "need" to be. So sick of hearing how "my job needs this and that" no. All jobs need to be properly balanced for the role that they are meant to be played.

I end my debate here. 12 years ffxi has been out. And here we are. They must be doing something right somewhere. As we all know, can't please everyone.
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By Phoenix.Mudrunner 2014-10-01 09:43:47
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Bahamut.Malothar said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
i don't think it's really reasonable to say it was obvious
The second they called them "mythic equivalents," I felt it was pretty obvious that they weren't going to be mythics from ToAU, and would be from something in SoA. Lo and behold, SoA had multiple currency types just like ToAU, and had multiple varying types of content of which to get items. While it wasn't a copy paste of ToAU's content and systems, I thought it was pretty clear that Coalition ranks would equal Assaults in the system. Granted, I was just as surprised that they required all 6 at Legend, but had prepped for it regardless. To call it an 8 month gate due to nearly 0 progress was just not prepping at all.

Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
new players aren't complaining because they aren't at that step yet, old players are because HPB and an afternoon's plasm is trivial compared to 8 months of doing something that makes mythic reqs look interesting

Maybe skirmish bayld runs while 6 boxing makes it trivial, but HPBs are far from trivial for most going after an Ergon. Since making Idris, I know a fair few that have taken up the task, and all are hung at that point. The raw bayld is out there, but getting people to convert is still incredibly difficult, unless you're prepared to shell out 650 mil for your Ergon.

/thumbs up
 Valefor.Ophannus
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By Valefor.Ophannus 2014-10-01 09:47:11
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I'm disappointed at Coalition in general. Even Campaign Ops were better(they had BCNM/Assault style Campaign Ops which were badass). Coalitions were all super easy and none of them required anything other than solo footwork. Wish the higher level ones were at least battlefields or something more complex.

They hyped up SoA so much but it seems like an empty shell of an expansion. The whole thing seems like an Amusement Park with rides and hand holding. Waypoints and homepoint warps made everything easymode, 95% of zones aren't even explored anymore because what's the point? Most of SoA takes place in Cirdas Caverns (U) and 95% of the missions are just cutscenes in Western/Eastern Adoulin and virtually all are soloable except the latest fight with Balamor. Coalition/Pioneering doesn't seem to really impact the game much outside of Ionis bonuses and Naakual DT%, the zones don't seem to be as changing and dynamic as they implied outside of those stupid moving rocks in Yorcia(which are meaningless now with Waypoints and Homepoints anyway). Not to say WoTG wasn't disappointing too(that feel you got when you found out each past city is comprised of only one zone and there's no Jeuno outside of cutscenes and every new zone was the exactly like the regular zone but with a different color palette/music).
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By Ramyrez 2014-10-01 09:47:23
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And if you bought any alex post-SoA, your mythics are not really legitimate.

"You didn't cheat -- in fact, you were entirely on the up-and-up -- but someone else did cheat, so your work is now invalidated."

Nope, not buyin' it.
 Sylph.Traxus
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By Sylph.Traxus 2014-10-01 09:48:23
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Phoenix.Mudrunner said: »
You forgot the worst part of assaults and tokens.

If you're doing it legitimately, the tag limitations are definitely worse than actually completing assault/nyzul isle missions, but regardless, you didn't have to do that either.

You could (still can I beleive?) complete assaults by zoning in and trading the ledger to the rune with ASE/peekaboo/whatever.

You could skip to floor 100 from 1 in nyzul by PoS hacking the same way the salvage boss duping worked.

EDIT:

Ramyrez said: »
Quote:
And if you bought any alex post-SoA, your mythics are not really legitimate.

"You didn't cheat -- in fact, you were entirely on the up-and-up -- but someone else did cheat, so your work is now invalidated."

Nope, not buyin' it.

I'm not trying to invalidate anyones efforts. My point is the vast majority of these mythics wouldn't exist (even from people 'entirely on the up-and-up') because the alexandrite supply simply wouldn't have been there to produce them. Which is why it's silly to argue mythic requirements are fine based on the volume people have been churning them out post-SoA.
 Valefor.Ophannus
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By Valefor.Ophannus 2014-10-01 09:50:42
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SE did announce REM updates to be coming but they are trying to figure out how to properly upgrade and balance then.


That was only in reference to increasing ilvl past 119, which means most likely just a simple Damage increase and a boost to the base attribute bonus like more acc/att on relics or base stats on emps. Most REMs when upgraded to 119 had nothing unique added. The special bonuses were not touched(blind/def down/crit bonus), I think the only REM that was boosted was Nirvana and a few other mage ones that simply added m.dmg. Most emps are worthless at 119 because they offer nothing unique(club and staff are pointless since you can unlock the WS, same for Bow and Gun). The only way to boost Empyreans is to give them WSD+25-30% on their Emp weapon skills, although SE probably won't do that since the base attributes on the Emp weapon technically are the same WSC as the emp WS.
By volkom 2014-10-01 10:01:36
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how much of a dps boost will daken give ninjas?
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-10-01 10:14:00
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Bahamut.Malothar said: »
The second they called them "mythic equivalents," I felt it was pretty obvious that they weren't going to be mythics from ToAU, and would be from something in SoA. Lo and behold, SoA had multiple currency types just like ToAU, and had multiple varying types of content of which to get items. While it wasn't a copy paste of ToAU's content and systems, I thought it was pretty clear that Coalition ranks would equal Assaults in the system. Granted, I was just as surprised that they required all 6 at Legend, but had prepped for it regardless. To call it an 8 month gate due to nearly 0 progress was just not prepping at all.
except they weren't announced until over a year after adoulin came out, and there was nothing prior to that that indicated coalitions would have any use besides bayld/exp

i'm not saying it was the best choice not to do them, but it wasn't as clear cut as you want to put it.. you prepared and were rewarded

that doesn't make 8 months any less obscene in a game that's lost half of its population in the same time period..

Quote:
Maybe skirmish bayld runs while 6 boxing makes it trivial, but HPBs are far from trivial for most going after an Ergon. Since making Idris, I know a fair few that have taken up the task, and all are hung at that point. The raw bayld is out there, but getting people to convert is still incredibly difficult, unless you're prepared to shell out 650 mil for your Ergon.
you can make that 650m doing nothing besides a daily dynamis run for the 8 months you're waiting on requirements.. i can make it in a week
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By Bahamut.Samsonxiii 2014-10-01 10:26:06
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Release the aoe weapon skills for sam in the dat files.
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By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2014-10-01 10:42:34
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volkom said: »
how much of a dps boost will daken give ninjas?

No one knows, since damage will be based off the damage on the shurikens.
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-10-01 11:04:31
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Bahamut.Malothar said: »
The second they called them "mythic equivalents," I felt it was pretty obvious that they weren't going to be mythics from ToAU, and would be from something in SoA. Lo and behold, SoA had multiple currency types just like ToAU, and had multiple varying types of content of which to get items. While it wasn't a copy paste of ToAU's content and systems, I thought it was pretty clear that Coalition ranks would equal Assaults in the system. Granted, I was just as surprised that they required all 6 at Legend, but had prepped for it regardless. To call it an 8 month gate due to nearly 0 progress was just not prepping at all.
except they weren't announced until over a year after adoulin came out, and there was nothing prior to that that indicated coalitions would have any use besides bayld/exp

i'm not saying it was the best choice not to do them, but it wasn't as clear cut as you want to put it.. you prepared and were rewarded

that doesn't make 8 months any less obscene in a game that's lost half of its population in the same time period..

Quote:
Maybe skirmish bayld runs while 6 boxing makes it trivial, but HPBs are far from trivial for most going after an Ergon. Since making Idris, I know a fair few that have taken up the task, and all are hung at that point. The raw bayld is out there, but getting people to convert is still incredibly difficult, unless you're prepared to shell out 650 mil for your Ergon.
you can make that 650m doing nothing besides a daily dynamis run for the 8 months you're waiting on requirements.. i can make it in a week

It's frustrating... I have 4 other people building them on Lakshmi to compete with. I believe 3 of them have stockpiled 3k a piece but haven't gotten past the Legend requirement. I'm currently 3/4s done with the 2500 stage and it would be really nice just to buy all their HPBs. However it turns out I might be able simply farm Gil and bayld and be done within a month or 2.

Reason I said its frustrating though is getting access to the raw supply. Can buy about a thousand a week but I'm limited by market supply etc.
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2014-10-01 11:15:20
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Bahamut.Malothar said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
That's great if you were one of the scrubs who needed to do them for bayld/exp/whatever when they were new. If you were keeping up with current content, they were just boring and a waste of time until Ergon came out.
We knew mythic equivalents were coming out for them soon after (before? I forget) SoA came out. I still don't see how anyone could not of had the foresight to realize these would be required in some capacity. Sure, it doesn't change anything for new/returning players, they're pretty screwed with it, and at some point, a change (multiple even, HPBs will be hell to get once SoA is done with) will need to be made so that the gating for it isn't so extensive. But I've never seen them complaining about it, it's the one's who've played for years upon years that apparently couldn't see an obvious requirement to something designed similarly to Mythics.

Granted the pan-legend req is sort of analogous to the Captain rank req, but personally I thought Ergons were just going to require a boatload of bayld, which wouldn't really be plausible for one person to do (bayld was not fungible at the time) without access to high-rank ops.
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By Ramyrez 2014-10-01 11:47:44
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Bahamut.Samsonxiii said: »
Release the aoe weapon skills for sam in the dat files.

Tachi: Grim Halo, dammit.
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By Valefor.Sapphire 2014-10-01 12:22:48
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volkom said: »
how much of a dps boost will daken give ninjas?
noone knows because we don't know the proc rate or the damage formula based on skill/atk/shuriken/etc!

Not like you'd ever login to xi again to find out yourself </3
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-01 12:23:03
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Bahamut.Samsonxiii said: »
Release the aoe weapon skills for sam in the dat files.
While we are at it, let's have it so the AoE WS would self-light with each other, and that only SAMs can skillchain multiple mobs at once.

You know, for "balance"
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By Valefor.Sapphire 2014-10-01 12:24:13
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Tachi: fellcleave
Water based aoe weaponskill made from the tears of warriors
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-01 12:25:07
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Valefor.Sapphire said: »
Tachi: fellcleave
Water based aoe weaponskill made from the tears of warriors
Psh, like any WAR would use it!

Retaliation spam ftw.
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By Refia1 2014-10-01 15:05:56
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Sylph.Traxus said: »
Phoenix.Mudrunner said: »
You forgot the worst part of assaults and tokens.

If you're doing it legitimately, the tag limitations are definitely worse than actually completing assault/nyzul isle missions, but regardless, you didn't have to do that either.

You could (still can I beleive?) complete assaults by zoning in and trading the ledger to the rune with ASE/peekaboo/whatever.

You could skip to floor 100 from 1 in nyzul by PoS hacking the same way the salvage boss duping worked.

EDIT:

Ramyrez said: »
Quote:
And if you bought any alex post-SoA, your mythics are not really legitimate.

"You didn't cheat -- in fact, you were entirely on the up-and-up -- but someone else did cheat, so your work is now invalidated."

Nope, not buyin' it.

I'm not trying to invalidate anyones efforts. My point is the vast majority of these mythics wouldn't exist (even from people 'entirely on the up-and-up') because the alexandrite supply simply wouldn't have been there to produce them. Which is why it's silly to argue mythic requirements are fine based on the volume people have been churning them out post-SoA.

wow so ppl got tons of tokens jumping from fl 1 to 100?
By volkom 2014-10-01 15:09:46
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Valefor.Sapphire said: »
volkom said: »
how much of a dps boost will daken give ninjas?
noone knows because we don't know the proc rate or the damage formula based on skill/atk/shuriken/etc!

Not like you'd ever login to xi again to find out yourself </3

-.-
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By Highwynd 2014-10-01 15:15:39
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How big must the nyzul zone be to have several instances of 100 different floors? Most zones only have 1-6 instances or so of the same battlefield. Or is it really just the same room but the data is rearranged and there's really only 8 or so nyzul rooms and when you reserve it, and warp up a floor, it just refreshes the floor you were just on and scrambles everything around.
By volkom 2014-10-01 15:17:02
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think its several floor layouts with random monsters with an objective
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