How Would You Balance The Jobs?

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How would you balance the jobs?
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-17 11:20:26
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Cor doesn't compete with the buffer slot usually, but rather with the dd. You remove a dd to make place for less damage but additional buffs. A well geared cor can deserve a spot in any endgame event.
But yeah dispel happy mobs are the bane of cor. The more you need to roll the less desirable you are as you're also losing tons of dps.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-17 11:20:34
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Valefor.Ophannus said: »
It's just really disheartening to see a Tsurumaru outparse my Ryunno DRG by like 15-20%(WS+SC dmg).

But all that Angon DPS increase should be credited to you. Alongside all the crit damage you're responsible for thanks to all those Stardivers!

lol
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-09-17 11:21:06
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Ragnarok.Nemesio said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
BLU is one of those jobs that is borderline OP. Not from a pure DPS point of view but from a total game mechanics POV. Tons of utility, potent self heals, potent defense / offensive buffs while having high physical and magic damage. Aoe sleeps, debuffs and a highly configurable load out system. Its only drawback is how complex it is to play and understand. To realize its potential the player needs to know the mechanics of FFXI really well. A good BLU is godly, a poor BLU is an embarrassment, not much room in between.

So SE has to be extremely careful with buffs lesr it break something.

And that's balance. BLUs potential is stifled by the limits of the player to understand its mechanics and the mechanics of the event. It's also a job that scares people off because it has so many moving parts.

While SAM gives up everything by mashing your Fudo macro until ***falls over, BLU requires a ton of different sets, understanding what spells do, preparing for the situations with your loadouts beforehand and utilizing that versatility.

Complicated jobs should be highly rewarding where simple jobs should be middling/average. Good players get to be 'OP' and bad players wear MP gear and look like idiots.

That's why SAMs OP. It's not difficult to understand yet it's so effective for seemingly no reason. What SAM should be is an average DD that excels when skillchains are involved but that's been abandoned for SMASH ALL THE THINGS which should be WAR or DRKs niche.
You make it sound like there is no difference between a skilled SAM and a non-skilled one. With identical gear, one that actually knows what they are doing will blow the other away. Knowing when to properly use SC, abilities, and certain WS's, albeit easier than a BLU, can still be difficult and taxing.

While its worlds simpler than BLU, its more than just a TP and WS macro.

It's how powerful the job is on default settings. This is owed largely to how OP fudo is. A low skilled play can use gearsets posted on the SAM forum or just copy the TP and Fudo set from someone else and be extremely effective by just mashing their WS macro. No need to understand all those other abilities. A great player will learn those abilities and reach truly broken levels of performance.

It's the MNK syndrome all over again. Just engage and punch things while occasionally hitting a WS macro. The job comes prewired to do tons of damage on autopilot.

The fix for this would be a nerf of Fudo but a buff to the JAs. Similarly SAMs SC bonus trait could be enhanced to 50~75%. This reduces the autopilot damage but leaves room for advanced damage output.

As things are now, I could script out the job and play with nearly zero human input.
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By FaeQueenCory 2014-09-17 11:21:24
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Cerberus.Spirachub said: »
FaeQueenCory said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Quote:
Seriously, SAM is a little too perfect.


Actually it has, if you're fighting a mob that can full time amnesia or can't use WS at all, then SAM would be inferior to others.

That hurts WAR, DRG and DRK also as Amnesia locks out their potent JA's. MNK is the other broken DD job, but that's been the case for ages and was semi balanced by the rest being within the same general bracket for damage. SAM just flat out beats everything else by such a large margin it's comical.

I don't have newer parse for WAR DRG and DRK atm(since I haven't pt with them forever) so I can't be very sure, but one of the yorcia parse I had shows that 85% of SAM's came from WS, only 15% were from white dmg. I don't recall WAR DRK's WS dmg plays such an important role in total output according to some very old parse.
I don't believe that's right... Namely because I *just* did a Ra'Kaznar run with two SAMs (set up was RUN, BRD, WHM, RDM -he was a returning player and it's all he has at the moment-, and SAMx2).
And the parse was SAM1: 35% white damage 8% SC and SAM2: 15% white idr% SC and my RUN with 14.5% white (which is funny to me).
So it doesn't seem that the majority of damage is from SC (35% vs 8% of total damage dealt)...
But that's just one event and one experience.
Basically: don't underestimate fulltime 80% delay reduction and increased hitrate from Hasso and Zanshin and their effects on DPS.

SC dmg only includes the dmg done by the sc, not the ws. Afania is referring to WS dmg, which is included in the scoreboard(persumably) as non SC dmg, so what you call white damage here isn't pure white dmg.

You can estimate the actual white dmg from looking at the wsavg stats and multiply that by the number of ws recorded, and take it away from that total dmg you get from the report... or use Kparser or something.
Ooo I think you're right... Idk what parser they used... But it might have been Kparser... So... My point may be more valid than thought... But you may be 100% correct.

But that still doesn't dismiss the fact that SAM's hitrate is massive compared to everyone else just from having Zanshin... And higher hitrate = higher DPS.

And further, it shouldn't be a NM that "balances" a job... It should be an NM that favors a type of job. (eg slashing damage being good in Yorcia Delve but Blunt is good in Morimar and piercing is in Marjami.)
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-09-17 11:22:21
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Valefor.Ophannus said: »
It's just really disheartening to see a Tsurumaru outparse my Ryunno DRG by like 15-20%(WS+SC dmg).

But all that Angon DPS increase should be credited to you. Alongside all the crit damage you're responsible for thanks to all those Stardivers!

lol

People truly underestimate the power of stacking defense down.
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 Valefor.Ophannus
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By Valefor.Ophannus 2014-09-17 11:27:03
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That's why SAMs OP. It's not difficult to understand yet it's so effective for seemingly no reason. What SAM should be is an average DD that excels when skillchains are involved but that's been abandoned for SMASH ALL THE THINGS which should be WAR or DRKs niche.


THIS x100000000000

SAM should specialize in SC only. WAR/DRK should be WSing 150-200% more than SAM.

The logic is simple. If SAM can gain TP 150-200% times faster than other DDs, why shouldn't WAR or DRK deal 150-200% times more WS damage than WAR or DRK? Like SAM is 10/10 WS damage 10/10 in TP generation and 10/10 in skillchaining; WAR and DRK are like 8.5 or 9/10 in WS damage 6 or 7/10 in WS damage and 5/10 in skillchains, it's like why do WAR or DRK even exist when SAM does everything they do but better. WAR and DRK should excel in raw ws damage if SAM is gonna specialize in TP generation and SC spams.


The mage equivalent of SAM is like a SCH that is permanently Tabula Rasa'd and the strategems never wear off, so they can Cure/aoe/sleep/nuke/enfeeble/buff/raise rivaling BLM/RDM/WHM to the point where the benefits of the specialists are marginalized. Jobs that are generalists do things half-assed; like RDM and DNC and jobs that are specialists, excel; i.e WHM, RNG, BRD. Yet SAM does many things, very well to the point where other DDs can't compare. You don't give a job that specializes in SC damage ALSO the best TP generation AND best WS damage AND the best armor classes AND attack speed bonus JA AND incredible traits like hassozanshin.
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 Valefor.Ophannus
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By Valefor.Ophannus 2014-09-17 11:27:58
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But all that Angon DPS increase should be credited to you. Alongside all the crit damage you're responsible for thanks to all those Stardivers!

You're right, and although that's valid and true and extends to Stardiver's +5% crit def down too, it's not like the extra damage from buffs/debuffs shows up on the parse as being attributed to to the debuffer/buffer. If it did, BRD would be respected as the best DD in the game since their buffs increase everyone's damage far more than having a melee in their place. Same goes for DNC btw, where their damage + everyone's extra damage from haste samba, increases everyone's DPS more than having a WAR or MNK in their stead would.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-17 11:28:46
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Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
People truly underestimate the power of stacking defense down.

And it's also the reason why people undervalue jobs like Geomancer, Red Mage and Dragoon and read too much into parser values like a scoreboard rather than what individuals bring to the table.

That Angon global DPS buff is potent, as is putting Frightful Roar or Geo-Frailty on a target and makes up for a large portion of the DPS the character may not be doing personally. Dia, Def Down and a Geo'd Def down? Huge amounts of GLOBAL DPS increase.
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By Valefor.Ophannus 2014-09-17 11:30:37
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Angon's -25% is the statistical equivalent of giving the ALLIANCE +33% attack because it shrinks the denominator, not increases the numerator. Defense down is almost always better and more potent than increasing the attack of the DDs because 1) it more efficiently increases the cRation for everyone not just one party, it can't be 'dispelled' unless it's erased, and it's more potent than the same value of +attack.
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 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-09-17 11:34:22
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Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Oh and Ccl is the pChan of the SAM group, so take everything he says about SAM with a large grain of salt. SAM can freely use /WAR for berserk which puts it on the same level as WAR/SAM and only slightly behind DRK/SAM. DRK can go /WAR but that -50% defense will get them killed on anything you want that much attack on, not to mention Soul Eater and Diabolic Eye are both suicide moves. That's DRK's biggest issue, their survivability is extremely limited if they actually use anything other then Last Resort.

war/sam berserk has 14% more crit and 9%? more attack(and can pretty much full time it) than sam/war. Also war/sam does weaker dmg than sam; but they should considering they are the only dd with very potent aoe buff; maybe they should focus on that aspect of war giving war the ability to full time either warcry or bloodrage aoe buff would make us use war again

Drk can use diabolic eye and not die; it's not that suicidal; Soul eater is suicidal if used for more than one ws or outside of sp zerg

Sam was meh from abyssea till tsurumaru(beside legion); the only nerf it would need now would be tachi: fudo; nerf more than fudo and we'd just all swap to ryu since drg is a thing now so I'd rather see them buff war and drk and make harder content than nerf sam.
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By Valefor.Ophannus 2014-09-17 11:34:51
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Quote:
(eg slashing damage being good in Yorcia Delve but Blunt is good in Morimar and piercing is in Marjami.)


Except Marjami takes slightly less from slashing, and Morimar switches weaknesses depending on phases(blunt is only last 25%). Wopket takes -99% damage from piercing permanently, at any HP%. No other current NM has damage immunity like that which can't be removed by a gimmick or HP % phase. Also Marjami is more of a RNG bonus than a piercing bonus in practical purposes because meleeing him is a deathwish, unlike Wopket.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-17 11:37:01
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I think where the FFXI team has failed is that they never ended up pursuing properly what they designed the jobs to be. Instead all dds are there doing the same thing cause their side-abilities are so neglected that no one bothers with them.

Why should a tachi deal more damage than a giant axe?
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By Valefor.Ophannus 2014-09-17 11:40:53
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I agree. The relative strength of jobs should be based on their main hand weapon base damage. DRK and WAR=slow but strong. DRG slightly faster but weaker. SAM=moderate strength/moderate speed. THF=fast as hell but weaker; spike damage, etc. Instead you have DRKs hitting delay cap with heavy *** weapons, SAM's destroying everyone, DRG's being god knows where. Side abilities are all derpy. Some jobs get fantastic JAs like MNK/WAR/DRK/SAM, other jobs get pointless side abilities or lack abilities like THF/BST/NIN.

Also the roles are so diluted and intended roles are so downplayed. DRG was meant to deal high damage with multihits, high tp gain and shed their hate while hitting elemental weaknesses with breath; instead breaths are worthless, Jumps are reliant on a crappy pet, multihits are pathetic on hard content and things like +WSD only affect the first hit. DRK was meant to deal great damage by sacrificing stats, instead the benefits are marginal while the tradeoffs are punitively severe -15% HP for +20 accuracy??? SAM gets +10 accuracy for free, at the cost of magic cast/recast which they don't even have natively---how is that a bad tradeoff, it doesn't affect a SAM at all unless they're /NIN which they ought not even need except like 5% of the time.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-17 11:51:46
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
I think where the FFXI team has failed is that they never ended up pursuing properly what they designed the jobs to be. Instead all dds are there doing the same thing cause their side-abilities are so neglected that no one bothers with them.

Why should a tachi deal more damage than a giant axe?

This becomes needlessly complicated and the reason that so many MMOs have homogenized their DPS jobs. The minute you start trying to apply RL mechanics to the game, you end up with lopsided balance and people finding what works best and ruthlessly sticking to it - like the XI of old. Bad, bad XI of old.

If anything, this dev team has made great strides to making all DPS viable both by addressing many of the crippling issues that made jobs like MNK completely useless in '04 era endgame, giving a bunch of impressive weaponskills through abyssea and flattening out the DPS horserace such that competency and skill can determine who wins.

Mostly what keeps you from using certain DPS are resistance barriers or events like AAs where you need blinks if you like being alive. VD has boiled down to abusing ranged strategies which bodes ill for the 'make ***harder!' crowd. Theres a point where making things harder just means more annihilator RNG because rapecones are a thing.

SAM is overstated, mythic access is overstated and this game hasn't seen better balance ever. SAMs an impressive DPS job but it's favored moreso because it's the easiest job to not ***.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-17 11:55:01
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Of course there will always be something that is preferred. It's impossible to create anything that works exactly equally on all sides.

But if you give all the benefits to a single job it doesn't work either.

Drk could have gotten meaningful dark magic.
Thf should have gotten the ability to steal stats instead.
War top ws dmg but slow.
Sam average ws dmg but huge skillchains.
Mnk top white dmg and low on ws.

and so on.

This is of course speaking from a do it from scratch, you can hardly apply anything new at this point. Only a constant wave of buffs and nerfs.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-17 11:58:34
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So basically XIV? A job where everything plays differently but ultimately is homogenized to all hell.

DRG, BLM and MNK play differently but all do damage there. Unsurprisingly it's a complaint about that title.

I think everyone can agree that DRK could have used more spells but really, even in the offline FFs what DRK could do with magic was limited to all hell.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-17 12:03:08
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Drg and blm in XIV have a pretty bad design in my opinion. That example is actually the opposite of where I'm going at.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-17 12:24:32
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Valefor.Ophannus said: »
I agree. The relative strength of jobs should be based on their main hand weapon base damage. DRK and WAR=slow but strong. DRG slightly faster but weaker. SAM=moderate strength/moderate speed. THF=fast as hell but weaker; spike damage, etc. Instead you have DRKs hitting delay cap with heavy *** weapons, SAM's destroying everyone, DRG's being god knows where. Side abilities are all derpy. Some jobs get fantastic JAs like MNK/WAR/DRK/SAM, other jobs get pointless side abilities or lack abilities like THF/BST/NIN.

Also the roles are so diluted and intended roles are so downplayed. DRG was meant to deal high damage with multihits, high tp gain and shed their hate while hitting elemental weaknesses with breath; instead breaths are worthless, Jumps are reliant on a crappy pet, multihits are pathetic on hard content and things like +WSD only affect the first hit. DRK was meant to deal great damage by sacrificing stats, instead the benefits are marginal while the tradeoffs are punitively severe -15% HP for +20 accuracy??? SAM gets +10 accuracy for free, at the cost of magic cast/recast which they don't even have natively---how is that a bad tradeoff, it doesn't affect a SAM at all unless they're /NIN which they ought not even need except like 5% of the time.

Yonin, innin, sa, ta, aura steal, etc. Just because a JA doesn't grant haste or some direct damage doesn't mean it's a crappy JA. SATA is arguably one of the better job abilities in the game.
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-09-17 12:26:16
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
If my linkshell is any indication, the best corsair is a mule who can be swapped out of party and forgotten until you need to roll or Wild Card again.

The second-best corsair is a cor/whm helping with -nas/erase and haste.

Given our limited members and what we do to still accomplish endgame tasks, I can accept it, but...

*seeth*

I actually miss Voidwatch. -.-;

With the way difficulty scale up with more ppl in event recently, I'm not sure a COR mule is even effective unless you're doing BC, buff outside then finish the fight in 5 min.

I rarely /WHM, Leaden salute just got another major boost thanks to pixie hairpin +1 and JSE cape WSD augment, which boosted a 6~7k WS by %, now it's really OP on darksday. it also dark with fudo so it's not like it's really bad for SC when you play with SAMs. Honestly idk why SE keep buffing leaden salute lol.

I have even harder time to understand the obsession with COR/WHM though!

Cerberus.Spirachub said: »
FaeQueenCory said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Quote:
Seriously, SAM is a little too perfect.


Actually it has, if you're fighting a mob that can full time amnesia or can't use WS at all, then SAM would be inferior to others.

That hurts WAR, DRG and DRK also as Amnesia locks out their potent JA's. MNK is the other broken DD job, but that's been the case for ages and was semi balanced by the rest being within the same general bracket for damage. SAM just flat out beats everything else by such a large margin it's comical.

I don't have newer parse for WAR DRG and DRK atm(since I haven't pt with them forever) so I can't be very sure, but one of the yorcia parse I had shows that 85% of SAM's came from WS, only 15% were from white dmg. I don't recall WAR DRK's WS dmg plays such an important role in total output according to some very old parse.
I don't believe that's right... Namely because I *just* did a Ra'Kaznar run with two SAMs (set up was RUN, BRD, WHM, RDM -he was a returning player and it's all he has at the moment-, and SAMx2).
And the parse was SAM1: 35% white damage 8% SC and SAM2: 15% white idr% SC and my RUN with 14.5% white (which is funny to me).
So it doesn't seem that the majority of damage is from SC (35% vs 8% of total damage dealt)...
But that's just one event and one experience.
Basically: don't underestimate fulltime 80% delay reduction and increased hitrate from Hasso and Zanshin and their effects on DPS.

SC dmg only includes the dmg done by the sc, not the ws. Afania is referring to WS dmg, which is included in the scoreboard(persumably) as non SC dmg, so what you call white damage here isn't pure white dmg.

You can estimate the actual white dmg from looking at the wsavg stats and multiply that by the number of ws recorded, and take it away from that total dmg you get from the report... or use Kparser or something.

This is correct!
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-17 12:27:21
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Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Honestly idk why SE keep buffing leaden salute lol.
Shh! Let it be that way!
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By Valefor.Ophannus 2014-09-17 12:32:16
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Due to the way JA delay works, SATA are good but in an alliance where the mob is turning every second; they're hard to execute, and I thought TA doesn't work across alliances. Aura steal is nice, when it freakin works, but it's tied to a 5min ability; and DRK gets Absorb-Attri which is better than aura steal because it's a quicker recast.


If they scale back SC damage to be what it was before they upped it, but just allowed SC to be unresisted, SAM would be a lot more balanced. No need for SCs to be doing 30k damage ever. Reports of SAM 1shotting Wopket with a 4 or 5 step 99,999 light skillchain is mindblowingly bad game design.
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By Fenrir.Mefuki 2014-09-17 12:34:28
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Breath spells still suck, macc on things could still stand to be reworked, some old spells could use some varnish (Terror Touch, Venom Shell, F. Barrier, 1k Needles, Warm-Up etc.) and a native way to set BLU spell sets would be appreciated.

Spot on, Sparthosx. BLU is so close to being perfect in my mind. The main thing I want for BLU now is just for our old spells to be reworked. Making all of our older spells useful would make us a true "fill-in-the-gaps" kind of job.

Ex. Updating Feather Storm to have greater range and do the damage of, let's say, an Eminent gear RNG's standard ranged attack would cover a small ranged damage niche. Or 1000 Needles could be updated to do 1000 damage to a target regardless of any immunities or resistances, possibly making the high MP,Casting Time,Recast and set cost worthwhile. While older physical spells could have a D update and take greater advantage of Monster Correlation, thereby potentially making spells like Bludgeon one of the go-to spells when fighting Undead who are also weak to blunt, etc.

If I were balancing BLU, I definitely would make spell adjustments to the vast majority of old spells, making us have more depth in combat. But I would not want them to outperform jobs that specialize in anything, just make us a viable option.

One thing I would absolutely NOT do is something I've seen a number of BLU on the OF ask for: Allow BLU to access their full spell list. Basically all of our spells would have to be nerfed into uselessness if that happened. The spell setting system, including the 1 min lockout on spells, is a large part of what keeps us balanced as well as part of what makes BLU interesting. We can do a lot of things decently well but we have to choose our loadout.
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-09-17 12:35:52
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I rarely /WHM, Leaden salute just got another major boost thanks to pixie hairpin +1 and JSE cape WSD augment, which boosted a 6~7k WS by %, now it's really OP on darksday. it also dark with fudo so it's not like it's really bad for SC when you play with SAMs. Honestly idk why SE keep buffing leaden salute lol.

I have even harder time to understand the obsession with COR/WHM though!

Well, with Incursion yeah. We've taken cor mains.

I even got to go.

And then go promptly scolded by everyone, including my own wife who was the other corsair, for subbing DNC and being up there soaking up damage and debuffs.

I don't *** get the /whm. I'm terrible at it, I think it's worthless because I don't balance playing -na *** well with actually doing damage, etc.

But whatever. I'll take /whm on corsair over spending an endless amount of time on ranger doing DM/AAs/etc., I guess.
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-09-17 12:36:31
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Honestly idk why SE keep buffing leaden salute lol.
Shh! Let it be that way!

Also, seriously. This.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-17 12:37:27
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What she means is that if the cor goes /whm, most of the time you're better off bringing another job entirely to the event.
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-09-17 12:38:40
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
What she means is that if the cor goes /whm, most of the time you're better off bringing another job entirely to the event.

*shrug*

We win things, so I don't argue I guess.

I'll take not being bitched at by everyone over anything sensible.
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By Valefor.Ophannus 2014-09-17 12:39:27
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I think the idea they had for BLU was to, instead of buffing old spells, create upgraded versions of similar spells. Like a upgrade for bludgeon(3 hit spell, fast cast, fast recast) was Delta Thrust. Need multihit blunt? Asuran Claws.

Monster Correlation is such an understated component of Blue Mage that 99% of BLUs forget it even exists. I loved going BLU to Ceizak Delve and doing spamming 3-4k Delta Thrusts(Lizard Spell) on Chapuli NM where every DD had to hold TP.
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-09-17 12:42:55
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Valefor.Ophannus said: »
I think the idea they had for BLU was to, instead of buffing old spells, create upgraded versions of similar spells. Like a upgrade for bludgeon(3 hit spell, fast cast, fast recast) was Delta Thrust. Need multihit blunt? Asuran Claws.

Monster Correlation is such an understated component of Blue Mage that 99% of BLUs forget it even exists. I loved going BLU to Ceizak Delve and doing spamming 3-4k Delta Thrusts(Lizard Spell) on Chapuli NM where every DD had to hold TP.

So annoying though, setting specific spells for specific events, potentially screwing with your traits, etc. Isn't it?

I don't know. I wouldn't mind playing BLU in theory, but I refuse on principle.
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-09-17 12:51:16
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
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I rarely /WHM, Leaden salute just got another major boost thanks to pixie hairpin +1 and JSE cape WSD augment, which boosted a 6~7k WS by %, now it's really OP on darksday. it also dark with fudo so it's not like it's really bad for SC when you play with SAMs. Honestly idk why SE keep buffing leaden salute lol.

I have even harder time to understand the obsession with COR/WHM though!

Well, with Incursion yeah. We've taken cor mains.

I even got to go.

And then go promptly scolded by everyone, including my own wife who was the other corsair, for subbing DNC and being up there soaking up damage and debuffs.

I don't *** get the /whm. I'm terrible at it, I think it's worthless because I don't balance playing -na *** well with actually doing damage, etc.

But whatever. I'll take /whm on corsair over spending an endless amount of time on ranger doing DM/AAs/etc., I guess.

Well, I agree that COR is kinda bad in incursion, on NM leaden salute doesn't work quite well, with all that dispel/debuff and rebuff it's annoying as ***. But when I offered BLU for stun lock/AoE erase my LS started drama - -

Anything else that doesn't resist leaden salute, DP+pixie hairpin +1+ Anrin Obi and day/weather buff+OAT offhand and SAM roll just rapes. Taking dmg isn't a legit argument cuz every melee takes dmg, if you want additional 13% def down from steps you have to melee anyways.
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By Lakshmi.Amymy 2014-09-17 12:51:21
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Well to balance the jobs have warriors and dark knight do 15,000 upheavals or ukko furies and resolutions. Ninja dancer thief beastmaster faster attack rounds. Problem solved.

DD can I have it? Anything
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