Obamas War Without Congress Approval

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Obamas war without congress approval
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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-09-17 09:58:55
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
ISIS' endgame isn't even to attack America moreso restore the Islamic caliphate to its peak during the great caliphates from Spain in the West to Iran in the East.

The whole side bit about attacking America is designed to scare us and goad us into fighting. It's why Iran is all in for eradicating these morons as is Saudi Arabia and every country that resides in territories the great caliphates controlled.

In a way it's genius because most of the countries under that sphere are ripe for conquest given the relative instability and any such caliphate would be so powerful considering the modern resources they'd control.

I can see the logic in how some of these jihadists could believe they could restore the Rashidun/Umayyad-era caliphate. Emphasis on that 'see' part.

The very concept of a "caliphate" is enough to make me oppose anyone who wants to create one. Especially if it's basis is radical Islam.

I know I talk ***on religion as a whole, but in practice I'm very live-and-let-live when it comes to non-extremists as long as you treat everyone like people.

But these particular Islamic extremists are seriously on par with rapists and child molesters. In fact, in the strictest definition, they are rapists and child molesters. And slavers. Genocidaires, even.

And you know they can't really care about religion. They don't convert people at sword point as a means of saving their souls; the idea is that by "converting" what you're actually doing is agreeing to live by their tyranical laws in exchange for keeping your head. Literally.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-17 10:15:29
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
ISIS' endgame isn't even to attack America moreso restore the Islamic caliphate to its peak during the great caliphates from Spain in the West to Iran in the East.

The whole side bit about attacking America is designed to scare us and goad us into fighting. It's why Iran is all in for eradicating these morons as is Saudi Arabia and every country that resides in territories the great caliphates controlled.

In a way it's genius because most of the countries under that sphere are ripe for conquest given the relative instability and any such caliphate would be so powerful considering the modern resources they'd control.

I can see the logic in how some of these jihadists could believe they could restore the Rashidun/Umayyad-era caliphate. Emphasis on that 'see' part.

The very concept of a "caliphate" is enough to make me oppose anyone who wants to create one. Especially if it's basis is radical Islam.

I know I talk ***on religion as a whole, but in practice I'm very live-and-let-live when it comes to non-extremists as long as you treat everyone like people.

But these particular Islamic extremists are seriously on par with rapists and child molesters. In fact, in the strictest definition, they are rapists and child molesters. And slavers. Genocidaires, even.

And you know they can't really care about religion. They don't convert people at sword point as a means of saving their souls; the idea is that by "converting" what you're actually doing is agreeing to live by their tyranical laws in exchange for keeping your head. Literally.

A caliphates merely an empire though, an empire in a world of people accustomed to divine rule which goes part in parcel with Islam being a religion of submission and complete obedience.

Now I'm sure many a scholar would label me a Western minded racist who sees Muslims beneath my ivory tower but I'm nothing of the sort and in fact, I feel that Muslims need to self-generate the need to move towards democratic rule within their own construct just as Catholicism gave way to Protestantism. We keep trying to force foreign ideals on people who see no real benefit to such practices.

Of course the major difference being no central authority to attack in Islam but people find a way, they always do.
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-09-17 10:26:52
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Now I'm sure many a scholar would label me a Western minded racist

I probably get the same label. But truth be told I just despise all religious extremism; it just turns out that in the scope of current events, Islamic extremists tend to be the most disruptive to literally everyone and everything else they encounter.

A caliphate is, to my understanding of the definition, an empire based on religious rule.

That is a stomach-churning concept to me.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-17 10:53:28
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Honestly, though the literal definition of a caliphate may be a theocracy, history has shown that many caliphates have largely been pretty welcoming of others within a construct of loose rule by local governors who report to a central authority. If anything, extremism is what's gotten Islam into trouble as it does any form of rule. When you're butchering your own citizens, unsurprisingly everything goes to ***.

Some of the greatest caliphates in history have put religion on the backburner and while Islam will always be present within a Muslim caliphate, what the leaders choose to do with the religion is up to them.

I'm not Islamic so I don't really care if people want to worship but once you start discriminating against/killing others under your delusional pretenses, I do have a problem. Many wise rulers have come to recognize this and simply let religion be so long as you follow the rules of the form of governance you live under.

Just like these here United States.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-09-17 10:58:19
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Just like these here United States.

Ehhh. To a point I guess.

Still too much God peppered into policy for me.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-17 11:09:09
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The world will never be rid of religion but what I do want is not to be executed because I don't believe in some all-powerful entity that controls everything, including what I can or can't eat.

I feel that in the marketplace of ideas, being non-religious or at least being open minded to things besides raw dogma will trump the nonsense that religion has ruined so many minds with. It'll also force theists to up their game and change their positions to adapt to modernity.

Evolution ***.
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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-09-17 11:11:58
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
The world will never be rid of religion but what I do want is not to be executed because I don't believe in some all-powerful entity that controls everything, including what I can or can't eat.

I feel that in the marketplace of ideas, being non-religious or at least being open minded to things besides raw dogma will trump the nonsense that religion has ruined so many minds with. It'll also force theists to up their game and change their positions to adapt to modernity.

Evolution ***.

Evolution is a lie, Sparth. Haven't you been listening?

Edit: That said, if it's just God in the language (I really don't give a damn about the Pledge, on the money, etc.) I can even deal with that.

But...the fact that churches are tax exempt organizations but can still spend money on political lobbying drives me batty. It's things like that I want gone...(oh, and take away their tax exemptions too. God's got plenty of cash. He can afford it.)
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-17 11:15:39
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
The world will never be rid of religion but what I do want is not to be executed because I don't believe in some all-powerful entity that controls everything, including what I can or can't eat.

I feel that in the marketplace of ideas, being non-religious or at least being open minded to things besides raw dogma will trump the nonsense that religion has ruined so many minds with. It'll also force theists to up their game and change their positions to adapt to modernity.

Evolution ***.

Evolution is a lie, Sparth. Haven't you been listening?

I'd believe that if theists weren't changing their God to adapt to the standards of modernity. Even the Pope and Catholicism are abandoning that 'old time religion' because stoning the gays, getting in the kitchen and subjugating the brown people doesn't sell well these days.

Keep it up boys, the critique of religion is working and so is secularism. Viva la educacion!
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-09-17 11:36:06
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
The world will never be rid of religion but what I do want is not to be executed because I don't believe in some all-powerful entity that controls everything, including what I can or can't eat.

I feel that in the marketplace of ideas, being non-religious or at least being open minded to things besides raw dogma will trump the nonsense that religion has ruined so many minds with. It'll also force theists to up their game and change their positions to adapt to modernity.

Evolution ***.

Evolution is a lie, Sparth. Haven't you been listening?

I'd believe that if theists weren't changing their God to adapt to the standards of modernity. Even the Pope and Catholicism are abandoning that 'old time religion' because stoning the gays, getting in the kitchen and subjugating the brown people doesn't sell well these days.

Keep it up boys, the critique of religion is working and so is secularism. Viva la educacion!

Two-way street, though.

Bible literalists are a relatively new phenomena. The Catholic church has long-acknowledged the allegorical nature of the Old Testament, at the very least.

It's really these fundamentalist American Protestants that are the problem for Christianity right now.
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By fonewear 2014-09-17 12:09:12
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All this talk of war really makes me want to go golfing.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-17 13:11:08
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
ISIS' endgame isn't even to attack America moreso restore the Islamic caliphate to its peak during the great caliphates from Spain in the West to Iran in the East.

The whole side bit about attacking America is designed to scare us and goad us into fighting. It's why Iran is all in for eradicating these morons as is Saudi Arabia and every country that resides in territories the great caliphates controlled. The Saudi king is as afraid of losing his territory as the next ruler especially when he's sitting on Mecca and Medina.

In a way it's genius because most of the countries under that sphere are ripe for conquest given the relative instability and any such caliphate would be so powerful considering the modern resources they'd control.

I can see the logic in how some of these jihadists could believe they could restore the Rashidun/Umayyad-era caliphate. Emphasis on that 'see' part.
The Obama 2016 movie predicted this map:

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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-09-17 13:30:56
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
... in fact, I feel that Muslims need to self-generate the need to move towards democratic rule within their own construct just as Catholicism gave way to Protestantism. We keep trying to force foreign ideals on people who see no real benefit to such practices.
Eh, generally any kind of attempt at democratic self-rule in the past half century has gotten nixed by the US. See Iran, et al.

And we should point out that democracy being a good thing can also be considered a foreign ideal.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-17 13:56:12
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Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
... in fact, I feel that Muslims need to self-generate the need to move towards democratic rule within their own construct just as Catholicism gave way to Protestantism. We keep trying to force foreign ideals on people who see no real benefit to such practices.
Eh, generally any kind of attempt at democratic self-rule in the past half century has gotten nixed by the US. See Iran, et al.

And we should point out that democracy being a good thing can also be considered a foreign ideal.

I agree, which is why I pointed out the Western intervention in the region since WWI and the need for oil to power the industrialization of the West. Our meddling plays a direct role in fomenting extremism in the region and subsequently our need to continuously fight terrorists but I wouldn't blame the West for all the MEs ills.

Iran is only one country. Most of the ME simply has never been democratic and still subscribes to clannish tendencies and village elders. Their loyalties don't lie with countries but to small autonomous regions.

The Arab Spring has given way to an Extremist Winter and while alot of the young people get off on anti-West sentiments their willful execution of fellow Muslims and hardline religious fervor does nothing to strike at the West and simply promises more death and war in the region.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-17 14:12:41
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They're making movie trailers now.

ISIS VIDEO - Flames of War Trailer
YouTube Video Placeholder
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By fonewear 2014-09-17 14:13:55
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Flames of War rated PG-13!
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-17 14:15:44
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
ISIS' endgame isn't even to attack America moreso restore the Islamic caliphate to its peak during the great caliphates from Spain in the West to Iran in the East.

The whole side bit about attacking America is designed to scare us and goad us into fighting. It's why Iran is all in for eradicating these morons as is Saudi Arabia and every country that resides in territories the great caliphates controlled. The Saudi king is as afraid of losing his territory as the next ruler especially when he's sitting on Mecca and Medina.

In a way it's genius because most of the countries under that sphere are ripe for conquest given the relative instability and any such caliphate would be so powerful considering the modern resources they'd control.

I can see the logic in how some of these jihadists could believe they could restore the Rashidun/Umayyad-era caliphate. Emphasis on that 'see' part.
The Obama 2016 movie predicted this map:


You mean the Umayyad Caliphate predicted this map:
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-17 14:21:23
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They didn't include Spain though.

Plus if they do it by 2016, right on target.
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-09-17 15:29:33
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Umad? lol
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-17 21:07:54
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Umad? lol
The Umad Caliphate.
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By fonewear 2014-09-20 12:34:37
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Is the war over yet or do I have time to get 36 holes of golf in ?
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 Bismarck.Chasuro
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By Bismarck.Chasuro 2014-09-20 13:06:41
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It's so funny, but not really I guess. People are so ignorant and petty. Obama is not doing enough, what an ***! Obama is doing too much, what an ***!

Corporations have got you in their pocket. They've got you thinking that the president holds the cards, and this black, muslim, socialist hitler is horrible! The guy whose main focus has been equality among the races, sexes and classes is a threat. I wonder why.

If people are really into politics, you should do some research. Not just repeat some *** rhetoric from Fox news.
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By fonewear 2014-09-20 13:18:00
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Bismarck.Chasuro said: »
It's so funny, but not really I guess. People are so ignorant and petty. Obama is not doing enough, what an ***! Obama is doing too much, what an ***!

Corporations have got you in their pocket. They've got you thinking that the president holds the cards, and this black, muslim, socialist hitler is horrible! The guy whose main focus has been equality among the races, sexes and classes is a threat. I wonder why.

If people are really into politics, you should do some research. Not just repeat some *** rhetoric from Fox news.

I only repeat rhetoric from Huff Post though...
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 Quetzalcoatl.Maldini
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By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-09-20 13:20:02
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
ISIS' endgame isn't even to attack America moreso restore the Islamic caliphate to its peak during the great caliphates from Spain in the West to Iran in the East.

The whole side bit about attacking America is designed to scare us and goad us into fighting. It's why Iran is all in for eradicating these morons as is Saudi Arabia and every country that resides in territories the great caliphates controlled. The Saudi king is as afraid of losing his territory as the next ruler especially when he's sitting on Mecca and Medina.

In a way it's genius because most of the countries under that sphere are ripe for conquest given the relative instability and any such caliphate would be so powerful considering the modern resources they'd control.

I can see the logic in how some of these jihadists could believe they could restore the Rashidun/Umayyad-era caliphate. Emphasis on that 'see' part.
The Obama 2016 movie predicted this map:


You mean the Umayyad Caliphate predicted this map:

That map, for the most part, shows the Arab Middle eastern states. A more fitting name for that potential empire would be United Arab Muslim States. Just want to remind people the greater majority of Muslims are not within the Arab world. I think Indonesia and Malaysia alone outnumber Arab Muslims.

Anyways, I don't think there will ever be another Arab Muslim push for empire. Sure you will get radicals like ISIS pushing for one but it will never be long until they are extinguished.

Arabs have reverted back to the sort of tribalism that existed pre-Islam. There are first class, second class and third class citizens across Arabia. Nepotism is widespread and openly practiced. Meritocracy is a concept that is foreign, noted, acknowledged and then ignored. As are all western phenomenon that impede tribalism. Any western imports that allow for the perpetuation of tribalism are accepted, any that oppose are rejected...rather ruthlessly.

For there to be an Islamic empire ever again, the muslims of the world would need to crawl out of the remnants of the Umuyad tribal mentality. A focus on education, information and research would need to manifest itself. Currently the overall political landscape in the muslim world is conservative. A liberal environment is required for the population to flourish and get past ridiculous dogma. Critical thinking needs to get some kind of foothold in the region.

Not to mention that the majority of the Muslim world currently resides within third world countries, meaning that conditions for nepotism, tribalism, corruption, favoritism and tyranny are already there.

As a Muslim I strongly believe that Islam is not being practiced by the majority of Muslims. The current form of popular Islam, be it moderate and considered tolerable in comparison to the extremists, is still pretty extreme in relation to what Islam actually is.

As a Muslim I also believe that it will be western converts, and western minds that realize the true meaning of the religion and practice it properly. I believe the Arab world is too gone down the deep end to ever make its way back to a leading position within the world. Sure I blame the US's foreign policy in the region, but I also blame the inhabitants.

I can see both sides, being half Irish and half Arab it comes naturally.
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By fonewear 2014-09-20 13:25:40
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As someone who pretends to be Jewish I agree.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-09-20 13:26:52
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fonewear said: »
As someone who pretends to be Jewish I agree.
sholom. I like the tiddies in your avatar.
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By fonewear 2014-09-20 13:29:19
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Here is a recent photo of me:

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 Quetzalcoatl.Maldini
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By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-09-20 13:36:14
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That's hot. no sarcasm.
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By Jetackuu 2014-09-20 13:50:26
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Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »

That map, for the most part, shows the Arab Middle eastern states. A more fitting name for that potential empire would be United Arab Muslim States. Just want to remind people the greater majority of Muslims are not within the Arab world. I think Indonesia and Malaysia alone outnumber Arab Muslims.

Anyways, I don't think there will ever be another Arab Muslim push for empire. Sure you will get radicals like ISIS pushing for one but it will never be long until they are extinguished.

Arabs have reverted back to the sort of tribalism that existed pre-Islam. There are first class, second class and third class citizens across Arabia. Nepotism is widespread and openly practiced. Meritocracy is a concept that is foreign, noted, acknowledged and then ignored. As are all western phenomenon that impede tribalism. Any western imports that allow for the perpetuation of tribalism are accepted, any that oppose are rejected...rather ruthlessly.

For there to be an Islamic empire ever again, the muslims of the world would need to crawl out of the remnants of the Umuyad tribal mentality. A focus on education, information and research would need to manifest itself. Currently the overall political landscape in the muslim world is conservative. A liberal environment is required for the population to flourish and get past ridiculous dogma. Critical thinking needs to get some kind of foothold in the region.

Not to mention that the majority of the Muslim world currently resides within third world countries, meaning that conditions for nepotism, tribalism, corruption, favoritism and tyranny are already there.

As a Muslim I strongly believe that Islam is not being practiced by the majority of Muslims. The current form of popular Islam, be it moderate and considered tolerable in comparison to the extremists, is still pretty extreme in relation to what Islam actually is.

As a Muslim I also believe that it will be western converts, and western minds that realize the true meaning of the religion and practice it properly. I believe the Arab world is too gone down the deep end to ever make its way back to a leading position within the world. Sure I blame the US's foreign policy in the region, but I also blame the inhabitants.

I can see both sides, being half Irish and half Arab it comes naturally.
No true-Scotsman arguments, no true-Scotsman arguments everywhere!
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 Quetzalcoatl.Maldini
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By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-09-20 13:54:36
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Bender is a befitting avatar for you.
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By Jetackuu 2014-09-20 13:58:05
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Only 28.3% of the time.
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