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St. Louis, Missouri Vs. The Police: Heaven or Hell, Duel 1! Let's rock!
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-21 12:20:41
Those two facts have full bearing to the main question:
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Was the kid trying to get the police officer's gun? That is up for debate.
they absolutely do not. Let me ask you this then:
Would an innocent person ever even attempt to take a gun away from a cop? Yes. Then prove it. Next time you are pulled over, take that gun away from the cop and see how well that goes.
If you manage to survive, don't forget to brag about it online.
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-08-21 12:21:47
Would an innocent person even be DEAD?!?
... yeah, think about it.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-21 12:22:00
Those two facts have full bearing to the main question:
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Was the kid trying to get the police officer's gun? That is up for debate.
they absolutely do not. Let me ask you this then:
Would an innocent person ever even attempt to take a gun away from a cop? If they were socialized to distrust cops, yes. So you are saying that it is perfectly ok and understandable to take a gun away from a cop, even if you are completely innocent and the cop is not coming at you at a threatening way.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-21 12:23:16
Would an innocent person even be DEAD?!?
... yeah, think about it. So, you are attributing innocence to the ability to live.
So, does that make us all guilty of a crime then?
You are just grasping for straws now....
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-21 12:25:20
Would an innocent person even be DEAD?!?
... yeah, think about it. So, you are attributing innocence to the ability to live.
So, does that make us all guilty of a crime then?
You are just grasping for straws now.... You're just approaching Nausi levels of logic...
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-08-21 12:29:06
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Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-08-21 12:30:31
Would an innocent person ever even attempt to take a gun away from a cop?
...
Then prove it. Next time you are pulled over, take that gun away from the cop and see how well that goes.
Context matters.
Your first question was open to interpretation.
E.g if the cop is attempting to hurt/kill me, yes, that would be an option or at least thought of
E.g. The cop that was a serial rapist, i'm sure the innocent victims would have liked to have disarmed him.
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-21 12:39:22
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-21 12:40:29
How do you figure?
But then again, I'm going under the assumption that there wasn't reasonable cause of being stopped in the first place. Yes, police officers can make mistakes, but there has to be some reason for being stopped in the first place.
If I was speeding, then I'm not innocent at that matter. I still would not reach for the gun, and create a situation like what happened with Brown.
But obviously people (stated that they) would go after the gun when stopped by a police officer.
Would an innocent person ever even attempt to take a gun away from a cop?
...
Then prove it. Next time you are pulled over, take that gun away from the cop and see how well that goes.
Context matters.
Your first question was open to interpretation.
E.g if the cop is attempting to hurt/kill me, yes, that would be an option or at least thought of
E.g. The cop that was a serial rapist, i'm sure the innocent victims would have liked to have disarmed him. Irrelevant. How many officers have ever intentionally went after a person they deemed to be non-aggressive and not going to injure/harm the officer or another human being.
I'm sure you will pull up something out of your *** to say "well, if you take this situation with this set of circumstances in the middle of the night and so on and so forth..." and try to justify urban myth. I'm even sure you will find something from a third-world country or a country currently in conflict also, but not in the USA, just to "prove" your point.
The point is, police officers in USA do not randomly shoot people just because, regardless of what Hollywood tells you otherwise.
Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2014-08-21 12:42:31
Those two facts have full bearing to the main question:
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Was the kid trying to get the police officer's gun? That is up for debate.
they absolutely do not. Let me ask you this then:
Would an innocent person ever even attempt to take a gun away from a cop? If they were socialized to distrust cops, yes. So you are saying that it is perfectly ok and understandable to take a gun away from a cop, even if you are completely innocent and the cop is not coming at you at a threatening way. Do you know how to read without projecting a strawman onto everything someone says? I said EXACTLY what I meant. If someone was socialized to distrust cops, it is a choice that can, and has, been made. It's not a smart choice, but it's a choice.
You asked "Would an innocent person ever even attempt to take a gun away from a cop?" and the response is: yes, under the right social conditions, it is possible. Don't *** backpedal and add quantification to your prior question. It makes it a chore to even consider you worth addressing.
Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-08-21 12:43:17
Many, many officers have killed "innocent" people in the US.
What rock do you live under?
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-08-21 12:45:39
It makes it a chore to even consider you worth addressing.
^^^so much this.^^^
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Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-21 12:47:00
Many, many officers have killed "innocent" people in the US.
What rock do you live under? They've also beat them, tortured them and falsely imprisoned them among other things. Don't worry though if yo're one of the lucky ones that gets exhonerated theres a couple million dollars of taxpayer money waiting for ya.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-21 12:49:34
Those two facts have full bearing to the main question:
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Was the kid trying to get the police officer's gun? That is up for debate.
they absolutely do not. Let me ask you this then:
Would an innocent person ever even attempt to take a gun away from a cop? If they were socialized to distrust cops, yes. So you are saying that it is perfectly ok and understandable to take a gun away from a cop, even if you are completely innocent and the cop is not coming at you at a threatening way. Do you know how to read without projecting a strawman onto everything someone says? I said EXACTLY what I meant. If someone was socialized to distrust cops, it is a choice that can, and has, been made. It's not a smart choice, but it's a choice.
You asked "Would an innocent person ever even attempt to take a gun away from a cop?" and the response is: yes, under the right social conditions, it is possible. Don't *** backpedal and add quantification to your prior question. It makes it a chore to even consider you worth addressing. I'm sorry if you used such a broad definition of "socialized."
But you still didn't answer the statement. Instead, you used a stupid excuse for a non-answer. Kindof like Flavin and Mosin.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-21 12:51:39
Many, many officers have killed "innocent" people in the US.
What rock do you live under? So, prove it.
Show us all something (outside of your usual sources, like Huffington Post and The Onion) that states that a person was gunned down in cold blood in the US that did nothing but stood still and allowed the cop to kill him execution-style, and the cop got away with it.
Because that would fit your so-called statement of "many, many officers have killed innocent people in the US."
Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2014-08-21 12:53:15
No, I used a very succinct response that answered exactly what you asked. Reaching for a cop's gun can be rationalized in a variety of situations or worldviews. The answer to your question is yes, despite your attempt to propose a question you wanted a resounding no for.
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-08-21 12:55:09
No, I used a very succinct response that answered exactly what you asked. Reaching for a cop's gun can be rationalized in a variety of situations or worldviews. The answer to your question is yes, despite your attempt to propose a question you wanted a resounding no for.
I imagine it's hard to conceptualize someone else's reality when your grip on your own is so loose.
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By Fenrir.Squintik 2014-08-21 12:58:36
Many, many officers have killed "innocent" people in the US.
What rock do you live under? So, prove it.
Step 1. Google "us cop kills innocent man"
Step 2. Read articles.
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-21 13:06:04
Many, many officers have killed "innocent" people in the US.
What rock do you live under? So, prove it.
Show us all something (outside of your usual sources, like Huffington Post and The Onion) that states that a person was gunned down in cold blood in the US that did nothing but stood still and allowed the cop to kill him execution-style, and the cop got away with it.
Because that would fit your so-called statement of "many, many officers have killed innocent people in the US." Okay.
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Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-08-21 13:12:12
Irrelevant. How many officers have ever intentionally went after a person they deemed to be non-aggressive and not going to injure/harm the officer or another human being.
I'm sure you will pull up something out of your *** to say "well, if you take this situation with this set of circumstances in the middle of the night and so on and so forth..." and try to justify urban myth. I'm even sure you will find something from a third-world country or a country currently in conflict also, but not in the USA, just to "prove" your point.
The point is, police officers in USA do not randomly shoot people just because, regardless of what Hollywood tells you otherwise.
Hell, even with the rather stupid criteria of "intentionally went after a person they deemed to be non-aggressive and not going to injure/harm the officer or another human being" here's one.
There are no small number of mistaken identification and address cases, where the police officer opened fire on someone who actually was non-aggressive and not going to injure/harm the officer or another human being.
Here's one from not long ago.
Or hell, that guy with the toy gun in Walmart.
Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-08-21 13:12:59
Many, many officers have killed "innocent" people in the US.
What rock do you live under? So, prove it.
Show us all something (outside of your usual sources, like Huffington Post and The Onion) that states that a person was gunned down in cold blood in the US that did nothing but stood still and allowed the cop to kill him execution-style, and the cop got away with it.
Because that would fit your so-called statement of "many, many officers have killed innocent people in the US." Please, please, please show me where I've used huffington post or the onion as a source. I would LOVE to see it.
Also, I love your description of innocent now. The person must be standing still, killed, and the officers must have gotten away with it.
I've already provided an example in this thread. The case has not gone to court yet and the video footage has not been released but the man killed in an Ohio wal-mart two weeks ago who was talking on a cell phone while holding an air gun he was going to purchase.
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/44156/st-louis-missouri-vs-the-police-heaven-or-hell-due/23#2690767
But lets play this game:
Quote: Eurie Stamp was in his pajamas, watching a baseball game, when SWAT officers forced a battering ram through his front door and threw a flashbang grenade inside. Stamp, a 68-year-old grandfather of twelve, followed the officers' shouted orders to lie facedown on the floor with his arms above his head. He died in this position, when one of the officers' guns discharged. Stamp wasn't the suspect; the officers were looking for his girlfriend's son on suspicion of selling drugs. The suspect was arrested outside the home minutes before the raid. Even though the actual suspect didn't live in Stamp's home and was already in custody, the SWAT team still decided to carry out the raid. Framingham has since disbanded its SWAT team.
https://www.aclu.org/war-comes-home-excessive-militarization-american-policing
DA ruled no criminal charges to be filed.
http://beforeitsnews.com/marijuana-debate/2011/03/police-officer-walks-in-massachusetts-drug-raid-death-488094.html
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Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-08-21 13:15:58
Hey, with this much backpedaling, KN may actually have been able to run away if he was a slave.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-08-21 13:51:24
Hey, with this much backpedaling, KN may actually have been able to run away if he was a slave.
Oh my lulz...
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-21 13:52:56
The Onion is American's Finest News Source™ and I will not stand by and let you badmouth such a marvelous publication, you cads!
By fonewear 2014-08-21 13:57:56
Huff Post is American's Finest News Source™ and I will not stand by and let you badmouth such a marvelous publication, you cads!
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By Fenrir.Squintik 2014-08-21 13:59:29
Sesame Street is American's Finest News Source™ and I will not stand by and let you badmouth such a marvelous publication, you cads!
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-21 14:04:31
Okay, no, seriously. The Onion is so much better than real news, or even blogs disguised as news (Fone...).
By Fumiku 2014-08-21 14:07:53
I think we all share the same feelings in front of a reporter being beheaded by terrorists while we can't agree that shooting an unarmed kid 6 times is bad. That is why there is a debate for this and not for the previous. anyone with half a brain can see that shooting an unarmed person is bad. unless said person is breaking into your house and threatening you and you loved ones with threats of violence or death. I will call the cops after he has been render inert.
Just to point this out, being unarmed doesn't mean you can't kill someone....... Just sayian....
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-08-21 14:12:41
Hey, with this much backpedaling, KN may actually have been able to run away if he was a slave.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-21 14:28:02
Many, many officers have killed "innocent" people in the US.
What rock do you live under? So, prove it.
Show us all something (outside of your usual sources, like Huffington Post and The Onion) that states that a person was gunned down in cold blood in the US that did nothing but stood still and allowed the cop to kill him execution-style, and the cop got away with it.
Because that would fit your so-called statement of "many, many officers have killed innocent people in the US." Please, please, please show me where I've used huffington post or the onion as a source. I would LOVE to see it.
Also, I love your description of innocent now. The person must be standing still, killed, and the officers must have gotten away with it.
I've already provided an example in this thread. The case has not gone to court yet and the video footage has not been released but the man killed in an Ohio wal-mart two weeks ago who was talking on a cell phone while holding an air gun he was going to purchase.
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/44156/st-louis-missouri-vs-the-police-heaven-or-hell-due/23#2690767
But lets play this game:
Quote: Eurie Stamp was in his pajamas, watching a baseball game, when SWAT officers forced a battering ram through his front door and threw a flashbang grenade inside. Stamp, a 68-year-old grandfather of twelve, followed the officers' shouted orders to lie facedown on the floor with his arms above his head. He died in this position, when one of the officers' guns discharged. Stamp wasn't the suspect; the officers were looking for his girlfriend's son on suspicion of selling drugs. The suspect was arrested outside the home minutes before the raid. Even though the actual suspect didn't live in Stamp's home and was already in custody, the SWAT team still decided to carry out the raid. Framingham has since disbanded its SWAT team.
https://www.aclu.org/war-comes-home-excessive-militarization-american-policing
DA ruled no criminal charges to be filed.
http://beforeitsnews.com/marijuana-debate/2011/03/police-officer-walks-in-massachusetts-drug-raid-death-488094.htmlYour previous example only reported one side of the story, and to hell with what really happened (only 2 people know what really happened, and one of them is dead). So, you automatically assumed that he was shot in cold blood because it fits your needs?
Why not add racism to it, since the guy who was shot was also black. That would create 15 days of news broadcasts and all the looting the media needs.
As for your second example, did you not see that the gun discharged, not the guy was shot? If you are going to make an example of every mistake everyone has ever made, as last I saw, SWAT was run by humans who make mistakes, then why not make an example out of you? Why don't you broadcast all the mistakes you ever made in your life, or are you going to say you never made a mistake ever?
But again, it suits your need, and you will be selective in your reading as long as it suits your agenda.
Congratulations, you are just as delusional as Pleebo.
To recap the events going on:
It all started with this:
Quote: The fatal shooting of an unarmed black St. Louis teen Saturday has caused an outcry of anger toward the city’s police, with locals rallying in the streets and widening uproar on social media.
Eighteen-year-old Michael Brown was being placed in a police squad car, eyewitness Piaget Crenshaw told the St. Louis Dispatch, when he put his hands in the air and attempted to flee. Several shots hit him as he ran away.
St. Louis County police chief Jon Belmar said Sunday that Brown struggled for the officer’s gun in the patrol car and that one shot was fired from the officer’s gun during the tussle. The officer fired multiple shots at Brown as he fled, Belmar said.
Anger flared the rest of the day after Brown’s death, as protesters screamed obscenities mixed with threats to “kill the police,” and more than 60 area police officers responded to the scene. More shots were reported, though no one was injured. Public Outcry After Police Shooting of Black St. Louis Teenager
Then this happened:
Quote: An uneasy calm settled over Ferguson, Missouri, early Tuesday after a second night of violent clashes between law enforcement and residents protesting the police shooting of an unarmed black teenager, with another demonstration planned for mid-morning.
So far, more than 50 people have been arrested in protests following the death of Michael Brown, 18, in a largely black St. Louis suburb on Saturday after what police officials said was a struggle with a gun in a squad car.
The FBI has opened a civil rights investigation into the racially charged case, and St. Louis County is also investigating the shooting.
Police have not said why Brown was in the police car. At least one shot was fired during the struggle, and then the officer fired more shots before leaving the car, police said.
Chanting "hands up, don’t shoot," protesters overnight challenged police trying to seal off the neighborhood where Brown was shot, a low-income, high-crime area east of downtown Ferguson. Some protesters said they were outraged that Brown appeared to have been shot while holding his hands up in surrender, calling the shooting the latest in a long history of police harassment of area minorities.
"They brought this on themselves," said 25-year-old Adam Burcher of Ferguson, who stood outside the Ferguson Police Department on Monday night with a sign reading "Stop Killing."
Later on Tuesday, a protest is expected outside the St. Louis County prosecutor's office in Clayton, Missouri, and officials are also expected to identify the police officer involved in the shooting. Another protest set in Missouri after riots over teen's killing
Followed by this:
Quote: Violence again erupted in the St. Louis area near the site of the police shooting death of an unarmed black teenager, according to local police, despite calls by U.S. President Barack Obama and activists for a measured response.
Early on Wednesday, a police officer shot and critically wounded a man who drew a handgun near the site of protests over the death of 18-year-old Michael Brown, a St. Louis County Police Department officer said.
Police responded about an hour after midnight to reports of four or five men with shotguns and wearing ski masks. They encountered multiple suspects running, one of whom pulled a gun on an officer, who fired at him, the county officer said. The man was taken to an area hospital.
Shortly after midnight, police fired tear gas into protesters who had confronted a line of officers after a far larger crowd dispersed, St. Louis County Police Department spokesman Brian Schellman said.
A photograph in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch showed a protester wearing a shirt with an American flag printed on it throwing a tear gas container back at the police. There were other media reports of bottles thrown at police.
The incidents followed two nights of violent protests, looting and arrests in Ferguson, the largely black St. Louis suburb where the shooting of Brown took place. Violence erupts again after killing of black Missouri teen
And now to bring you up to date:
Quote:
The Ferguson and St. Louis County police departments, which led the initial response to civil unrest in Ferguson, are both equipped with military equipment donated by the Defense Dept. Ferguson has received two vehicles, a trailer and a generator and St. Louis County has received nine utility trucks and two cargo trailers since 2012.
The equipment was received under the 1033 program which was enacted by Congress in 1992, and expanded in 1997. The program allows police forces to request and receive refurbished military equipment free of charge from the Pentagon. Police departments need only pay for shipping. Ferguson and St. Louis County police received military equipment from Pentagon
Quote: President Barack Obama on Thursday said that police should respect protesters after four nights of racially charged demonstrations in Ferguson, Missouri, over the recent police killing of an unarmed black teenager.
"There is never an excuse for violence against police or for those who would use this tragedy as a cover for vandalism or looting," Obama said a televised remarks.
"There's also no excuse for police to use excessive force against peaceful protesters or to throw protesters in jail for lawfully exercising their first amendment rights," he said, speaking to the press from Edgartown, Massachusetts near where he is vacationing with his family.
After the shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown in the St. Louis suburb on Saturday, dozens of protesters have been arrested and the police have used riot gear, tear gas and rubber bullets to break up protests.
There have been peaceful vigils and demonstrations as well as episodes of looting and violence.
Governor Jay Nixon on Thursday also told community members at a church in the St. Louis area that "over the next few hours we are going to be making some shifts so that people will be ... safe." He did not specify what his steps would be made. Obama calls for police to respect protesters in Ferguson, Missouri
Don't forget this one too:
Quote: Two reporters covering the shooting of an unarmed black teen by a white police officer in a St. Louis suburb say they were arrested at a McDonald’s Wednesday evening in the commercial corridor where angry protests have occurred.
Wesley Lowery of The Washington Post and Ryan Reilly of The Huffington Post say they were working in the fast-food restaurant when SWAT officers came in to quickly clear the area. Both quickly tweeted about their arrests, detention and subsequent release without any charges.
Reilly tells KMOX News that officers were trying to clear out the restaurant.
“I was just packing up, and I evidently did not move quickly enough,” he says.
Reilly says an officer banged his head on the restaurant door and sarcastically apologized for it.
“None of them were wearing name badges, I don’t know why,” he says. “Over a dozen times I asked for an identity, I asked for a badge number, and all the officers standing around heard my request and ignored it.”
Reilly said he believes they were released so quickly because they were journalists. He realized during his interview with KMOX News that he was not read his Miranda Rights.
“I wasn’t even Mirandaized,” he says. “I did not even think about that until you just mentioned. I was never given…nothing…wow. I should really know that as a justice reporter. I sort of knew it by heart, but I was never given my rights, or anything like that was mentioned.”
Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson did not immediately return a cellphone message from The Associated Press seeking comment. 2 Reporters Arrested At Ferguson McDonald’s
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