Please Sign In To Stop Genocide In Palestine

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Please sign in to Stop genocide in palestine
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 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-07-24 23:24:52
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And now with asking that so seriously I can only drop it :(
 
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By 2014-07-24 23:28:56
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 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2014-07-24 23:58:02
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Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
Now I know for sure, Senkyuutai is living in his own version of a Hollywood movie, and that movie's plot is telling everyone else, particularly Americans, that they're living in a Hollywood movie.

The actual translation you're looking for is:

He's calling your perception of his views narrow-minded, based on your own narrow minded views.

But being so narrow minded, you simply inferred that he was calling Viciousss narrow-minded for his views.
I guess I didn't explain enough times that the fact that this forum is mainly populated by US posters forces a certain reality on the forums themselves. You are merely an example that back it all up, since you're NA yourself. But as a friend of yours pointed out earlier, you cannot see your own bias/illusion. It's really funny to see you guys trying to teach lessons when you don't even realize that it goes both ways.

I very well know when I'm narrow minded in calling Americans X or Y. And I very well know when I've been called typical American mentality/attitude out for several posts without fail and eloquently.

I will once again hurt your anus but, this thread has been on the second part. Sorry, you really have a lot of work to do if you want to realize the logic behind this thread, you seem amputated of any.
This is the very same drivel coming from the guy who posted "it's my logic, and you're not supposed to be able to follow it" which actually shows you have absolutely none to begin with.

Also, being North American has very little to do with the same ideologies as being American, but of course, someone with as much enlightenment as you, would already know that... oh wait... You don't, which is why you keep drooling the same mindless and absolutely HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE *** you keep spewing about Americans, and anyone being associated with them by a shared landmass, despite a clear difference in ideologies that separate us.

As far as logical debates go, insulting anyone with a different point of view (for any reason, be it their upbringing, environment, or the media they watch and/or read from, simply because it's AMERICAN, or in this case, NORTH AMERICAN, and the ideological views of a select minority, that you seem to blanket as being the whole of America, which has a population base of roughly 330million people, and this website only caters to roughly... maybe 1,000 active users, and any random number of lurkers, of varying cultural background) is probably the safest way of being dismissed entirely, since your entire focus seems to be on insulting anyone and everyone.

So TL/DR: What little intelligence one could assume you fished out of an amoeba for your own use, has dwindled into a void of absolute nothingness.
For a third wheel/party, you sure are the most butthurt of them all. You made me smile, thanks.

That plus the answers to Ccl's question, oh my. We really don't have to post wall of texts anymore, you guys just prove our points by simply answering. And you don't even realize it or, in the case of Viciouss, just try to bury it under the carpet. This thread is gold.
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 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-07-25 00:12:24
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Still waiting on you to actually make some kind of point.
 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2014-07-25 00:17:32
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Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Still waiting on you to actually make some kind of point.
Still waiting on you to realize that as I just said (you really have troubles reading, don't you? not saying it's typically American, though), you are making my point stronger.

So unless you don't even grasp the content of your own posts, you very well know what is my point and why it pushes you to answer, and be upset (or buttmad in some situation like periodrose).
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 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-07-25 00:25:46
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Other than ccl just latching onto you and saying absolutely nothing of substance, you have yet to really say anything. Keep thinking that you have though. No one is upset, other than people irritated at ccl's poor communication skills.
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By Jetackuu 2014-07-25 00:26:54
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Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Other than ccl just latching onto you and saying absolutely nothing of substance, you have yet to really say anything. Keep thinking that you have though. No one is upset, other than people irritated at ccl's poor communication skills.
Not even upset bro, just want to bleach my brain, it's like reading Kawar, it hurts.
 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-07-25 00:27:55
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I'm done, people from USA on gw/ffxi told me there is no point to argue with monsters on this subject.
 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-07-25 00:28:27
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Asura.Ccl said: »
I'm done, people from USA on gw/ffxi told me there is no point to argue with monsters on this subject.

Great. Bye.
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 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-07-25 00:49:30
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w84oEbtZOHU&feature=youtu.be

This video is a lie too right ?
 Ragnarok.Zeig
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By Ragnarok.Zeig 2014-07-25 00:51:37
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
While I don't agree with limiting speech you are equating a recent (in Europes's history, recent) historicial event where millions of people died -not just the Jews- to making a joke about someones religion.

One is a fact. Something that happened. That affected everyone in Europe. That tore families apart, divided countries, cost millions of lives, and decades to recover from.

One is a character that may or may not have lived, and based on your beliefs, may or may not be relevant.

They are not the same thing in any way, shape, or form.
Then that's why you don't view making fun of prophet Muhammad as a big deal.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/earlysaw.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad#Non-Muslim_sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_Islam_as_Others_Saw_It

You can question something you don't know about, but you shouldn't make a conclusion until you've done enough research. You can't just generalize what you learned from Zeitgeist (the part where they question Jesus' existence) on everything religious.

Odin.Zicdeh said: »
a certain Islamic prophet demonstrated every clinical symptom of epilepsy and you get Anthrax in the mail.
Which sub-type of epilepsy is it that develops at the age 40, and then you start your "incoherent rambling" (do you even understand Arabic? The Quran is a unique literary form, nothing like it was ever produced before nor after)? At this age, you think of a brain tumor, or a stroke.
From what I recall regarding the descriptions of his state while receiving revelation in Muslim sources, if I'm to analogize it to a specific type, it'd be petit-mal seizures, and these usually start in early childhood.

But all that is irrelevant. What's relevant is: was he a deluded person, a lier, or telling the truth?
http://islamicpreacher.blogspot.com/2012/07/prophet-hood-of-muhammad-pbuh-by.html
If I was a lier claiming to be on a divine mission from God, and the sun eclipses on the day my child dies, and people start thinking "it must be because his son died", if I don't assert it, at least I wouldn't try to very clearly dismiss it.

Odin.Jassik said: »
The Koran, in many senses, doesn't require extreme interpretation to inspire violence
Jassik, it does require a fair bit of ignorance, whether the reader is a Muslim or not. Ignorance of the context of the quote, the meaning behind it, and, most of all, of the nature, life and teachings of the man to whom this book was revealed.

One quick example is that after reading about the Israelites many times, one might conclude: "I should hate all Jews" or "God must really hate all Jews". But that's a very shallow understanding (and I can back up my statement, I just intend for this to be quick). The message is to condemn the actions and warn us from following into their footsteps, rather than stigmatize a certain group of people.

And, at whoever claimed that Jews were always oppressed under Islamic rule:

"Jerusalem in the past, Jerusalem today:
An Italian Rabbi, Obadiah Yareh Da Bertinoro, travelled to Jerusalem in 1486 CE and he wrote a letter to his father telling him about the country and its people:
“The Jews are not persecuted by the Arabs in these parts. I have travelled through the country in its length and breadth, and none of them has put an obstacle in my way. They are very kind to strangers, particularly to anyone who does not know the language; and if they see many Jews together they are not annoyed by it. In my opinion, an intelligent man versed in political science might easily raise himself to be chief of the Jews as well as of the Arabs…”[1]
Compare the above with the situation of Jerusalem today.
[1] Rabbi Obadiah Yareh Da Bertinoro, quoted in The Jewish Caravan edited by Leo W. Schwarz, The Jewish Publication Society of America, Philadelphia, 1946, p. 249."

And:

"Zionist intolerance versus Muslim tolerance:
An Italian Jewish traveller, David dei Rossi, travelled through the Muslim world during the sixteenth century. He documented his observations about Jewish people living in the Muslim world,
"The Turks hold respectable Jews in esteem. Here and in Alexandria, Egypt, Jews are the chief officers and administrators of the customs, and the king’s revenues. No injuries are perpetuated against them in all the empire."[1]
Compare this with the Zionist state of Israel where Palestinians are treated worse than second class citizens.
[1] David dei Rossi, quoted by Norman A. Stillman, The Jews of Arab Lands: A History and Source Book. Philadelphia, 1979, pp. 291-92."

Anyone can oppress anyone (Muslims can oppress Muslims) for a variety of reasons, I find that silly to discuss. The point is: is it dictated by their doctrine or creed? is it a dogma (which is hard to change)? That is where the problem lies.
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-07-25 02:14:00
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Ragnarok.Zeig said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
While I don't agree with limiting speech you are equating a recent (in Europes's history, recent) historicial event where millions of people died -not just the Jews- to making a joke about someones religion.

One is a fact. Something that happened. That affected everyone in Europe. That tore families apart, divided countries, cost millions of lives, and decades to recover from.

One is a character that may or may not have lived, and based on your beliefs, may or may not be relevant.

They are not the same thing in any way, shape, or form.
Then that's why you don't view making fun of prophet Muhammad as a big deal.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/earlysaw.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad#Non-Muslim_sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_Islam_as_Others_Saw_It

You can question something you don't know about, but you shouldn't make a conclusion until you've done enough research. You can't just generalize what you learned from Zeitgeist (the part where they question Jesus' existence) on everything religious.

1. The person who the prophet muhammad is supposed to be, lived. The character that his followers believe in, that is up for debate.

I don't know if you are familiar with the game telephone that children are taught, but people change the story, exaggerate, lie, and are misunderstood within minutes of re-telling a story and these stories occurred 1500+ years ago. That's where faith comes in and fact leaves.

2. You completely disregarded the first words I said. I was attempting to explain why WWII was different (fact vs. faith) but I was not advocating that it should be treated differently. However, you got upset with my mildly worded one line about a potential prophet.
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By Ciri Zireael 2014-07-25 02:56:26
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-25 04:37:12
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Ignoring all the ad hominem that's been going back and forth from both sides of the argument, notice how(for the most part) all americans are on the same side, and eu posters on the other. Kinda interesting.

Also some of the same people who here say "but the poor jews deserved a home!" are the ones claiming immigrants in US need to be shot down.


I wish some people would get out of their tunnel vision, Israel is criminal.
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 Ragnarok.Bigsyke
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By Ragnarok.Bigsyke 2014-07-25 04:43:39
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Ignoring all the ad hominem that's been going back and forth from both sides of the argument, notice how(for the most part) all americans are on the same side, and eu posters on the other. Kinda interesting.

Also some of the same people who here say "but the poor jews deserved a home!" are the ones claiming immigrants in US need to be shot down.


I wish some people would get out of their tunnel vision, Israel is criminal.

But they are fighting the A-rabs, they must be good!

Saying the Palestinians have no right to complain about losing land is on the same level as saying the natives in the Americas/Australia had no right to complain when Europeans took over.
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 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-07-25 06:03:23
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This has been immensely entertaining, especially the people tying to say Hamas's mission isn't to commit genocide by wiping out every Jewish man, women and child. That was the entire reason they split off from Fatah. Europeans been hating Jews for centuries, the Catholics really didn't like them. Some of that made it to the USA but it's been watered down over time.

Israel's done some ugly sh!t, yet given the circumstances I can totally understand. They love their children and won't let them be killed by Arabs because of their religion / ethnicity. They are also being extremely conservative with their attacks. Israel possesses the military technology to exterminate every living thing in the Gaza strip, and since they forcibly relocated their people in 2005 there isn't a single Israeli left there. The fact that they haven't carpet / fire bombed that place into a blasted ruin earlier and just withstood waves after waves of rocket attacks, well that speaks volumes about their level of restraint.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-25 06:05:55
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No, we don't hate jews. Stop using that to try and strenghten your argument.
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-07-25 06:30:11
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
No, we don't hate jews. Stop using that to try and strenghten your argument.

Multiple times throughout history various European countries have either forcibly relocated their Jewish populations or just killed them off. You've also done that with the Gypsies.

It's really interesting to see your own cognitive dissonance, there is well documented history that reliably covers a good two thousand years with another two thousands years being somewhat sketchy yet accurate enough for general purposes. It takes some Olympic grade mental gymnastics to somehow fault Israel for protecting their children while absolving Hamas, any previously Fatah, of responsibility for mass, indiscriminate killings of Jewish people. Given the known history of Hamas along with their stated political goals (single Arab nation devoid of all Jews) it's only logical to conclude they will continue killing Jews indiscriminately.

Hell nearly everyone in their thread is still confusing Hamas and Fatah and thinking all Palestinian people are the enemies of Israel, even after being provided with sufficient information to the contrary. I don't have high expectations but at least people could get some basic education about all sides of the conflict.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-25 06:34:19
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Again, you're putting things in your argument to strenghten it that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

I made a poin of how eu posters and us posters are on opposing side and you replied eu hate the jews..now you specify it's in history, but you're talking to users here, not to the history of countries, and no one here hates jews, so you should remove that from your argument.

And now you're replying to me that I absolve Palestine, when in my very first post I said it has plenty of responsibilities for which it's to blame.

If you want to discuss something you should do so with the pertinent information; sure you're free to digress and expand the topic but you can't use that to create a fault in the other side since it wasn't even touched on.
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2014-07-25 06:41:47
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If anything, as far as my knowledge goes with the Dieudonné issue we had in the beginning of 2014 (and still have to an extent), people dislike Zionists, not Jews. I don't care about Jews, I literally give 0 ***about them, but Zionists are dangerous. Zionists happen to be Jews and also to control Israel.

That's about it. Regarding roms, it's not as easy.

If you want to make a proper comparison between different communities/kind of people, you could compare the Jews, people from Maghreb and Gipsies. You'll notice that these three communities are VERY different and have been accepted (or not) in very different ways through France and the related countries. I won't talk about Italy, Spain and Germany as I only know a bit of what they have, but I'm pretty sure they have faced the same stuff as they're in the same position as us.

We don't hate a whole group of people or religions, we hate the extremists that hide among their ranks. The innocent Jews are being manipulated by a very small part (the Zionists) and attract the hate in general, but if you put a Zionist and a "normal Jew" next to each other and explain the difference, no one in their right mind in EU will harm the Jew, or ask for him/her to be taken away. Only the Zionist will get into troubles.

Exactly like the Hamas is using innocent people and has made any innocent children into a potential bomb. You have to be objective in this kind of situation, really, this isn't as simple as G.I. Joe.
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-07-25 06:45:23
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Quote:
If you want to discuss something you should do so with the pertinent information; sure you're free to digress and expand the topic but you can't use that to create a fault in the other side since it wasn't even touched on.

Hahaha

I wrote rather long posts with maps and history. I explained the why's and hows of each side and how it all came about. I even explained that since the UN two nation plan was rejected by the Arabs, Israel believes it has no legal authority. None of this matter to you or the other posters. You just shout some ignorant inane sh!t like

Quote:
I wish some people would get out of their tunnel vision, Israel is criminal.

This entire discussion isn't based on logic or reason but on emotion and feelings. You are not open to having your views changed no matter how much information is presented.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-25 06:46:41
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And now you shift the focus on what we were talking about.

We're not here defending Hamas, rather pointing out Israel doesn't deserve the whiteknighting it gets in this thread.
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-07-25 06:59:34
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Quote:
If anything, as far as my knowledge goes with the Dieudonné issue we had in the beginning of 2014 (and still have to an extent), people dislike Zionists, not Jews. I don't care about Jews, I literally give 0 ***about them, but Zionists are dangerous. Zionists happen to be Jews and also to control Israel.

This is incorrect. You, like others, are inventing bond villains to simplify what is essentially a perspective problem. There are no super intelligent Zionists secretly plotting the extermination of all Palestinians so can have the land all to themselves. Someone capable of doing that would of quickly realized the futility of it and gone about doing other things.

Israel is a democratic nation, their leadership is voted in the same as the rest of ours. We (the observers) are under no direct threat of harm from Hamas rockets or fanatical extreme Islamic cries to exterminate us. So we see a militarily superior nation/people attacking a military inferior nation/people and we cry foul. They (the Israeli actors) are under the direct threat of harm from those attacks and most importantly their children are under direct threat of harm. They act accordingly to protect themselves and their children and counter-attack the attackers by using superior force. From the Israeli's point of view the most important thing is the protection of their family's and if innocent Palestinians have to die to insure Hamas can't harm them, so be it.

The idea of a peaceful resolution is naive. The idea that any Israeli would put down his weapons and trust Islamic extremists not to attack their children is so naive as it borders on childhood fantasy. And the idea that anyone can dissuade Hamas from continuing their attacks using peaceful measures is probably the most naive of all.

This is the reality of that conflict. There will be no peace as long as Islamic extremism exists.
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By fonewear 2014-07-25 07:13:50
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Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Still waiting on you to actually make some kind of point.

We are past page nine so any point will be incoherent rambling and sorta amusing.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-25 07:27:23
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I can accept the accusation of being too naive, as a matter of fact I am.

What I'm against is the proclaiming of Israel to some kind of paladin nation. It isn't.
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By fonewear 2014-07-25 07:31:03
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All you need is love. It has to be true I heard it in a song.


(that and a missile defense system)


I can end this conflict with one song though:


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By fonewear 2014-07-25 07:35:01
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Remember to smile when your enemy tries to destroy you.


If the 1960's taught us anything it is that songs and signs can change the world...for the worse.
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By Bahamut.Soraishin 2014-07-25 07:39:22
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Chairman Mao would be rolling in his grave right now if he could read all this bleeding heart nonsense. Hamas knows dawn well what they're doing. They didn't launch rockets and dig intricate tunnels for shats and giggles. They are strategically launching rockets in areas where there are bound to be high civilian casualties. All of that and more are strategic directives not even of Hamas origin. Hamas does not manufacture their own weapons. They pay for them. Follow the money and you'll find where interests meet.
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2014-07-25 07:39:31
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Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Quote:
If anything, as far as my knowledge goes with the Dieudonné issue we had in the beginning of 2014 (and still have to an extent), people dislike Zionists, not Jews. I don't care about Jews, I literally give 0 ***about them, but Zionists are dangerous. Zionists happen to be Jews and also to control Israel.

This is incorrect. You, like others, are inventing bond villains to simplify what is essentially a perspective problem. There are no super intelligent Zionists secretly plotting the extermination of all Palestinians so can have the land all to themselves. Someone capable of doing that would of quickly realized the futility of it and gone about doing other things.

Israel is a democratic nation, their leadership is voted in the same as the rest of ours. We (the observers) are under no direct threat of harm from Hamas rockets or fanatical extreme Islamic cries to exterminate us. So we see a militarily superior nation/people attacking a military inferior nation/people and we cry foul. They (the Israeli actors) are under the direct threat of harm from those attacks and most importantly their children are under direct threat of harm. They act accordingly to protect themselves and their children and counter-attack the attackers by using superior force. From the Israeli's point of view the most important thing is the protection of their family's and if innocent Palestinians have to die to insure Hamas can't harm them, so be it.

The idea of a peaceful resolution is naive. The idea that any Israeli would put down his weapons and trust Islamic extremists not to attack their children is so naive as it borders on childhood fantasy. And the idea that anyone can dissuade Hamas from continuing their attacks using peaceful measures is probably the most naive of all.

This is the reality of that conflict. There will be no peace as long as Islamic extremism exists.
I only read your first and last sentences.

How do you explain the fact that Zionists/bad Jews (whatever, really) are controlling the western nations for their own profit? Knowing that this has nothing to do with Islam, Palestine or whatever.
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By fonewear 2014-07-25 07:42:46
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Asura.Ccl said: »
Canadians are monsters too btw. Attacking a whole country supposedly cause a man dislikes hockey.
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