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FFXI-2
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By Akhileus 2014-07-17 02:27:54
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They did it with X-2 and they did a complete overhaul of FFXIV. Square enix have ventured into a new MMO venture with Dragon Quest X, which has only been released thus far, into the Japanese market. There is of course room for another MMO, the question isn't when, but rather what it will be, here's my hope:

Seeing as FFXI, initially at least, was a success, I think they could perhaps take the core elements from the game, and do a graphical overhaul to appease those who base their views on a visual spectacle, rather than a game play driven experience. There is so much to take from this game, and build on. SE must have learnt a bundle from this, if you consider how many patches, updates and overhauls they have done to this game over the year, if they were to release a successor, they would be much better prepared to bring a game to the table with more play-ability and more longevity.

I personally think FFXIV is a spectacular failure. The game is horrific, and for somebody that has played both versions of the game, I am qualified to have an educated opinion on it. I would rather see everything square enix bring out be a success, it would be a travesty to see them fall into huge debt and disappear like many Japanese companies have only recently with Atlus, and many others. It would lessen the quality of games available to the player base.

Essentially, I want them to make another MMO, but taking most of the successful elements from FFXI.
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By Xijaah 2014-07-17 03:01:54
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I don't think that's gonna happen. I despise FFXIV too, that's why I came back to XI, but I know many like it better than XI nonetheless (which is why FFXI's population is what? 1/20 of XIV's?). That wow-like system got them a lot of subs, that's all they should care; and since it's where the big money comes from, they're gonna invest in that project instead of making a remake of a game that's still (poorly) played.
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2014-07-17 03:10:52
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FFXIV surpassed 2 million subscribers in April, so whether you like the game or not doesn't determine it's level of success, figures speak for themselves and FFXIV has definitely been a success and I can say that without even playing it.

As for in effect, a FFXI-2, I can't see that ever working, sure nostalgia might drag some people back but it would be dull to play effectively the same game again, besides this game has a lot of life in it yet.
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By dragomair 2014-07-17 03:12:37
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I would hate if they did a graphical overhaul (a complete one.)
The only graphical updates I would be okay with would be for mouse support.
If I needed the game to be focused on graphics instead of gameplay I'd play FFXIV. Also, many of the current XI players don't have great setups and between that and many current XI players not wanting to leave, it wouldn't really attract much.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-07-17 03:37:34
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I'm not sure about an FFXI-2, but long-term I wouldn't mind seeing an FFXI offline mode that utilizes something akin to FFXII's gambit system. The online game has to die eventually, so I think it would be a nice transition.
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By Cerberus.Katairyu 2014-07-17 03:55:26
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Sadly in this day and age, everyone cares just about the name and brand. It's the reason why COD is such a hot seller, because they re-release the same game time and time again with a slightly different weapon line up and a slightly different setting.

And people buy it just because it's the 'newest' game. Sadly, 90% of the population will just go with the flow and will buy something because it's the newest game, abandoning any prior games as a result.

Good for developers trying to make money quickly, bad for developing a solid community and holding a consistent fan base. I applaud Square Enix for holding out on FFXI for so long, most companies by now would've ditched FFXI's core community, shut down the servers and released FFXXIIIVXI Online Turbo Mode 2: Electric Boogaloo.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-17 04:04:13
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I don't think any company would have dropped FFXI since it still makes pretty good profit as far as we know. Just surprised though they haven't made new server merges yet, wouldn't that mean also less costs for them?(other than it being justified from servers populations)

As for X|V I don't think it's doing bad as some naysayers say, it's just a very different game from XI cause it comes in a different age of gaming, even Yoshida himself has said this many times "people don't wanna focus on only one thing". That game is made so that players come and go in waves for updates that need to be steady. It doesn't care about keeping content alive much(though most still get reused to obviously cut the cost and energy of production), but just give at each update 2-3 things that you must do and then depending on where you are on the scale of hardcore-casual you will stop logging sooner or later. Most hardcore players will stop playing 2 weeks after the update, while everyone else will play for 1, 2 or 3 months when the new update then happens. Casual crowd(which is actually the 90% of a game)will still reach the new patch without having completed everything and still needing to catch up, thus they keep playing cause they feel they got a lot to do still.
It works. It sucks for hardcores, but it works.
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2014-07-17 04:13:03
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Sylph.Lilkat said: »
I'm not going to quote what you said, just a reference I'm replying to you, like I said, I don't play FFXIV, the figures I grabbed were from a google search, I tried to continue searching for some official figures but couldn't find anything.

I'd expect it is lower than 2 million, of course the article I found was published shortly after the PS4 release so there was probably a surge in subscriptions at the time, that said, can what you see on the game reflect the total player base?

There's probably a similar thing with how it works with FFXI, on Cerberus here there is probably about 600 players on during NA time and about 1100 during JP time, being EU I tend to intersect with both player bases at certain points.

So a NA player may think we're a dying game with only 600 while JP players will be content with a healthy server population of over 1000. (which is the only reason I can think server merges haven't happened) so then the server total of active players is about 1700.
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By Bahamut.Junfoo 2014-07-17 04:47:37
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Sylph.Lilkat said: »
Cerberus.Tidis said: »
FFXIV surpassed 2 million subscribers in April, so whether you like the game or not doesn't determine it's level of success, figures speak for themselves and FFXIV has definitely been a success and I can say that without even playing it.

As for in effect, a FFXI-2, I can't see that ever working, sure nostalgia might drag some people back but it would be dull to play effectively the same game again, besides this game has a lot of life in it yet.

I'll never understand why people lie like this about how well XIV is doing (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt to not believe such obvious false PR), it's not doing anywhere near as well as people make out. XIV does not have and never has had 2 million subscribers, not even 1/4 of that number is really true. At best XIV had 600k, and you can be sure if they bettered that number they would of said so.

The 2 million number is not subscribers or active players, it's accounts / players and at this point XI probably has around 10 million accounts over its lifespan. That number covers beta players, banned rmt players, inactive players etc. It's a number without any real meaning used only for reasons of false PR on the website. It's simply misleading "information".

XIV is nowhere near the success that XI is and probably will never beat it, mainly due to the massive costs XIV has drained from the company compared to the small amount XI cost them.

I've played XIV, I know that many of the servers are as deserted as XI ones are. It is not the world beating mmo many class it as, it's not doing any better than any other wow clone title.

Back on topic, they won't upgrade XI or make XI-2 because it will have a negative impact on XIV and really all they care about is appearing to be successful on that title due to the embarrassment of a FF title failing as badly as it did.


If you dont think 600k subscibers for a new mmo in this day and age is a success then you are clearly out of touch with the mmo world, and also try telling the people trying to participate in the new hunt system on XIV that the servers are dead, think of camping fafnir back in the day with 15 linkshells cursing each other out every day and u will get the picture.

Seha pretty much hit the nail on the head in that both games cater for everyone in some way so i never understand the degree of salt towards either game
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By Cerberus.Balloon 2014-07-17 04:53:13
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Everytime I bring up Final Fantasy XIV in XI it's met with universal disdain, I don't really get it.

It's a fine game. It's not my cup of tea long term, but you know what? If FFXIV was my first mmo I think I'd have stuck with it. The only reason I come back to XI is the time I've invested into it.

FFXIV is an impressive, if kind of generic MMO. It doesn't rock the boat, but it does scrub up really nice.

Anyway, maybe not FFXI-2, but I really would like to see an mmo incorporate some of the things FFXI did. A job system, slower paced combat, and equipment swapping being the big three.

I keep wondering why these QOL changes are happening, though. I wouldn't be surprised if they have some bigger plan for FFXI. I imagine a portable version ala DQ10(?) would be successful in Japan. Or a F2P Model.
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By Voren 2014-07-17 05:08:21
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Why even do a v2.0, just continue adding content.

I'd like to see content with ilvl caps so that the ilvl doesn't get HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE....well....more so. I know abyssea is about as fun as getting a root canal during an earthquake, but adding abyssea to past zones might be fun, or do something where allied notes can be used (for those with an abundance).

I'd also like to see rajas ring get upgraded to i119. Stats on that could be fun.

As for FFXIV, I tried it for a while, crafting was fun and easy. Getting a relic wasn't near as tedious as in FFXI. Those, though, doesn't add to the fun and the experience, in fact, imo it detracts from it.

There's no static parties where you actually get to know people. Duty Finder is a complete let down. God forbid if you should DF a dungeon and not want to speed run it. I suppose that's more of a fault of people than the game.
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By Cerberus.Demonsgate 2014-07-17 05:20:19
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I was talking about this kinda thing in the linkshell last night what if FFXI was rereleased as a new game and all players would start on a brand new server with all the new stuff they have added clean slate no mythics no relics no empys no crafts nothing just a entire new server for new players I know id make a account just to play on a new server
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By Cerberus.Balloon 2014-07-17 05:26:07
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Voren said: »
Why even do a v2.0, just continue adding content.

I'd like to see content with ilvl caps so that the ilvl doesn't get HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE....well....more so. I know abyssea is about as fun as getting a root canal during an earthquake, but adding abyssea to past zones might be fun, or do something where allied notes can be used (for those with an abundance).

I'd also like to see rajas ring get upgraded to i119. Stats on that could be fun.

As for FFXIV, I tried it for a while, crafting was fun and easy. Getting a relic wasn't near as tedious as in FFXI. Those, though, doesn't add to the fun and the experience, in fact, imo it detracts from it.

There's no static parties where you actually get to know people. Duty Finder is a complete let down. God forbid if you should DF a dungeon and not want to speed run it. I suppose that's more of a fault of people than the game.

Funnily enough, endgame is the complete opposite. God forbid you do anything outside of a static, because DF is a recipe for falling flat on your face.

Cerberus.Demonsgate said: »
I was talking about this kinda thing in the linkshell last night what if FFXI was rereleased as a new game and all players would start on a brand new server with all the new stuff they have added clean slate no mythics no relics no empys no crafts nothing just a entire new server for new players I know id make a account just to play on a new server

People like the IDEA of this, but again, I'm sure a lot of people play because of a sense of commitment to a character they've built. I know I get rosey eyed when I think about LFP or partying, but in execution? I'd quit so quickly.
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By Voren 2014-07-17 05:26:53
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So it'd be like restarting without anyone that's high level? Same content, same things to go do that you've already done, and going through the same headaches all over again?

Maybe I'm missing something.
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By Akhileus 2014-07-17 06:24:04
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I think I need to be more specific with my ideas, or not really my ideas, more existing ideas implemented into a successor.
When I say successor, it would be more in name than in anything else.

A graphical overhaul is based on my 'opinion' that the sprites, costumes, races and job classes are miles better looking than FFXIV. I only use FFXIV as a comparison as it's the nearest similar example to FFXI and its successor. Environments can always be improved, but planning of them is crucial and 14 is too easy to navigate. It takes away from the 'great' landscape feeling, or at least it can be perceived that way when they make it a slight challenge to navigate it, in such games as FFXI and Morrowind, this is blatantly apparent. It is a great feeling to build methods or travel up with effort.

I think the game mechanics are more interesting and involved in FFXI, and they spawn whole discussions over an extra 1% haste or whatever. It's so complex and rich, bringing it into a new game would be a good thing in my opinion.

Events, and contents could always be made anew, there would be no reason to carry over old format events such as Dynamis.

I think the crucial things are:

The character sprites, classes, costume design, some of the weapon design (although that could be massively improved).

The way in which the landscape is designed, huge, epic landscapes that are not easy to navigate.

The game mechanics. They could add more equipment slots, but the general mechanics should remain similar, in my humble opinion, haste should go back to its original maximum gear value, and other stats should be pulled back to their original base values.

I can't really re-design the whole game here, but if anyone can expand on positive aspects from the game that could possibly be carried over, then please feel free. I don't want to trash FFXIV, nor do I want an exact clone of XI. Just pull the positive aspects from XI over into a new game.
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By Cerberus.Detzu 2014-07-17 06:35:44
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Akhileus said: »
I think I need to be more specific with my ideas, or not really my ideas, more existing ideas implemented into a successor.
When I say successor, it would be more in name than in anything else.

A graphical overhaul is based on my 'opinion' that the sprites, costumes, races and job classes are miles better looking than FFXIV. I only use FFXIV as a comparison as it's the nearest similar example to FFXI and its successor. Environments can always be improved, but planning of them is crucial and 14 is too easy to navigate. It takes away from the 'great' landscape feeling, or at least it can be perceived that way when they make it a slight challenge to navigate it, in such games as FFXI and Morrowind, this is blatantly apparent. It is a great feeling to build methods or travel up with effort.

I think the game mechanics are more interesting and involved in FFXI, and they spawn whole discussions over an extra 1% haste or whatever. It's so complex and rich, bringing it into a new game would be a good thing in my opinion.

Events, and contents could always be made anew, there would be no reason to carry over old format events such as Dynamis.

I think the crucial things are:

The character sprites, classes, costume design, some of the weapon design (although that could be massively improved).

The way in which the landscape is designed, huge, epic landscapes that are not easy to navigate.

The game mechanics. They could add more equipment slots, but the general mechanics should remain similar, in my humble opinion, haste should go back to its original maximum gear value, and other stats should be pulled back to their original base values.

I can't really re-design the whole game here, but if anyone can expand on positive aspects from the game that could possibly be carried over, then please feel free. I don't want to trash FFXIV, nor do I want an exact clone of XI. Just pull the positive aspects from XI over into a new game.

FFXI is unique, I don't think you can compare it with any other game. The comparison between FFXIV and FFXI is irrelevant.
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-07-17 07:03:13
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Bahamut.Junfoo said: »
If you dont think 600k subscibers for a new mmo in this day and age is a success then you are clearly out of touch with the mmo world, and also try telling the people trying to participate in the new hunt system on XIV that the servers are dead, think of camping fafnir back in the day with 15 linkshells cursing each other out every day and u will get the picture.

Seha pretty much hit the nail on the head in that both games cater for everyone in some way so i never understand the degree of salt towards either game

I just don't understand the logic for MMO players to determine whether a game is successful or not. SWTOR had 500k sub before it went F2P, it's considered one of the biggest failure in the industry. FFXIV has 600k sub after 2 months, then SE refuse to release real info about sub number for w/e reason, and it's considered major success.


How do you determine 600k sub after 2 months, 2M registered account after 8 months(the only real sub info SE ever release about ARR) is major success?
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By Wordspoken 2014-07-17 07:05:57
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It's this thread again. /shrug
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By Pantafernando 2014-07-17 07:26:22
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Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Bahamut.Junfoo said: »
If you dont think 600k subscibers for a new mmo in this day and age is a success then you are clearly out of touch with the mmo world, and also try telling the people trying to participate in the new hunt system on XIV that the servers are dead, think of camping fafnir back in the day with 15 linkshells cursing each other out every day and u will get the picture.

Seha pretty much hit the nail on the head in that both games cater for everyone in some way so i never understand the degree of salt towards either game

I just don't understand the logic for MMO players to determine whether a game is successful or not. SWTOR had 500k sub before it went F2P, it's considered one of the biggest failure in the industry. FFXIV has 600k sub after 2 months, then SE refuse to release real info about sub number for w/e reason, and it's considered major success.


How do you determine 600k sub after 2 months, 2M registered account after 8 months(the only real sub info SE ever release about ARR) is major success?

You do have a point.

The only number that should really be relevant is the profit. And profit dont depend only of subscriptions, but also costs.
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By Asura.Ina 2014-07-17 07:39:25
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Sylph.Katsuras said: »
Wait times for dungeons can be incredibly long and servers are also not like on XI, they are all divided by region so they are not JP and English players on the same worlds. A NA server that is quiet during prime time will be completely deserted any other time.
I wait 5-10min on a DD job for anything that you do multiple times, the only things that take a while are the things you only do once (IE levi hard/story) since people only do them once. Even those if you throw a PF up it usually doesn't take long to get enough people to make the queue fast, especially since they added bonuses for having first timers.

With regards to non prime times I rarely have issues finding people to play with at 3am est on a NA server. Idk how other servers fare but that's just my experience.

Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Bahamut.Junfoo said: »
If you dont think 600k subscibers for a new mmo in this day and age is a success then you are clearly out of touch with the mmo world, and also try telling the people trying to participate in the new hunt system on XIV that the servers are dead, think of camping fafnir back in the day with 15 linkshells cursing each other out every day and u will get the picture.

Seha pretty much hit the nail on the head in that both games cater for everyone in some way so i never understand the degree of salt towards either game

I just don't understand the logic for MMO players to determine whether a game is successful or not. SWTOR had 500k sub before it went F2P, it's considered one of the biggest failure in the industry. FFXIV has 600k sub after 2 months, then SE refuse to release real info about sub number for w/e reason, and it's considered major success.
That's because SWTOR had been out for 11 months at that point and their population wasn't growing. IF any comparison is going to be made between ARR and SWTOR you would compare SW at the time it went FTP to how ARR is now, not how ARR was 2 months in.

Ultimately the game is successful if it is sustainable, growing and making money (or in the early stages recovering the costs spent to make the game)... The things the original release of XIV and SWTOR were not. As far as ARR goes I have no official numbers as you pointed out but we regularly have players who are new to the game joining my FC. So there is still an income of players which I would have expected to be a rare thing by now.

To the OP I don't see it ever happening, the fact that XIV bombed so hard in the first place was something that they could actually play to their advantage with ARR. A MMO recovering from a poor launch has been unheard of so they had an ambition factor going for them which made many people curious to see what they did first hand. FFXI isn't a big name anymore it has simply found it's niche. It's not dieing (at least not yet) but I keep seeing people argue numbers of 1000+ players online but back when I played a lot the player count at a low point was 1500ish with the highs being 2400, and this was before dual boxing was a fairly common thing and with twice as many servers. For the most part people who are going to quit have quit, some people might come back here and then for nostalgia but the chances of them staying are low since, well, they left for a reason. That said XI has long ago paid off it's production costs (I'd hope at least) meaning SE will do what they need to to keep current players there. Ultimately though if SE were to do the same with XI as they did XIV you probably wouldn't be happy about it since they'd probably make a wack of changes to bring it more in line with modern MMOs. The market for the game XI is just isn't what it was.
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By Akhileus 2014-07-17 07:50:58
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Cerberus.Detzu said: »
Akhileus said: »
I think I need to be more specific with my ideas, or not really my ideas, more existing ideas implemented into a successor.
When I say successor, it would be more in name than in anything else.

A graphical overhaul is based on my 'opinion' that the sprites, costumes, races and job classes are miles better looking than FFXIV. I only use FFXIV as a comparison as it's the nearest similar example to FFXI and its successor. Environments can always be improved, but planning of them is crucial and 14 is too easy to navigate. It takes away from the 'great' landscape feeling, or at least it can be perceived that way when they make it a slight challenge to navigate it, in such games as FFXI and Morrowind, this is blatantly apparent. It is a great feeling to build methods or travel up with effort.

I think the game mechanics are more interesting and involved in FFXI, and they spawn whole discussions over an extra 1% haste or whatever. It's so complex and rich, bringing it into a new game would be a good thing in my opinion.

Events, and contents could always be made anew, there would be no reason to carry over old format events such as Dynamis.

I think the crucial things are:

The character sprites, classes, costume design, some of the weapon design (although that could be massively improved).

The way in which the landscape is designed, huge, epic landscapes that are not easy to navigate.

The game mechanics. They could add more equipment slots, but the general mechanics should remain similar, in my humble opinion, haste should go back to its original maximum gear value, and other stats should be pulled back to their original base values.

I can't really re-design the whole game here, but if anyone can expand on positive aspects from the game that could possibly be carried over, then please feel free. I don't want to trash FFXIV, nor do I want an exact clone of XI. Just pull the positive aspects from XI over into a new game.

FFXI is unique, I don't think you can compare it with any other game. The comparison between FFXIV and FFXI is irrelevant.

Pretty much said it wasn't a direct comparison, but thanks anyway. Great being pedantic, rather than contribute.
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By Odin.Godofgods 2014-07-17 08:02:31
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you can tell my brain aint working in its sleep deprived state right now. Read the title and the OP and still didnt click that it was 11-2. Kept thinking he meant 10-2...

I had thought about an 11-2 myself. With the intro of 14, i doubt they will tho, but it would be nice. Something redesigned (and recoded) for today but with the same history of 11. The hardest thing for any game makers is to try and get ppl to try something new. Thats why series are so much more popular now in most generas. And 11-2 would give that familiar sense to a player. - Maybe make it like 50 years after 11's time frame or something?
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By Asura.Ackeronll 2014-07-17 08:03:42
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I'd actually support a graphical update. I mean there's a lot of graphical errors and things in this game that could use a fix as well, like the infamous backwards foot on beetles. Also if it ends up looking anything like FFXIV (graphically) it would look amazing.

Also doing an overhaul like that would allow them to change some of the code so that it can be easier to change. One of the common excuses they use for not being able to change things is something like 'it's not possible for this system' or something like that. An example is the Enmity topic, even they know it sucks *** but they keep saying they are restricted in changing it due to the code they set up for this game.
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-17 08:05:10
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I wouldn't mind seeing a new single-player, more traditional FF game set in Vana'diel (read:absolutely nothing like that ***XIII franchise). Maybe somehow being able to import your own XI character into it.

But that's venturing more into WRPG territory so it's likely out of the question.

But I wouldn't want another MMO.
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By fonewear 2014-07-17 08:06:21
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"Yes it's worth it"
 
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-07-17 08:52:52
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Asura.Ina said: »
Sylph.Katsuras said: »
Wait times for dungeons can be incredibly long and servers are also not like on XI, they are all divided by region so they are not JP and English players on the same worlds. A NA server that is quiet during prime time will be completely deserted any other time.
I wait 5-10min on a DD job for anything that you do multiple times, the only things that take a while are the things you only do once (IE levi hard/story) since people only do them once. Even those if you throw a PF up it usually doesn't take long to get enough people to make the queue fast, especially since they added bonuses for having first timers.

With regards to non prime times I rarely have issues finding people to play with at 3am est on a NA server. Idk how other servers fare but that's just my experience.

Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Bahamut.Junfoo said: »
If you dont think 600k subscibers for a new mmo in this day and age is a success then you are clearly out of touch with the mmo world, and also try telling the people trying to participate in the new hunt system on XIV that the servers are dead, think of camping fafnir back in the day with 15 linkshells cursing each other out every day and u will get the picture.

Seha pretty much hit the nail on the head in that both games cater for everyone in some way so i never understand the degree of salt towards either game

I just don't understand the logic for MMO players to determine whether a game is successful or not. SWTOR had 500k sub before it went F2P, it's considered one of the biggest failure in the industry. FFXIV has 600k sub after 2 months, then SE refuse to release real info about sub number for w/e reason, and it's considered major success.
That's because SWTOR had been out for 11 months at that point and their population wasn't growing. IF any comparison is going to be made between ARR and SWTOR you would compare SW at the time it went FTP to how ARR is now, not how ARR was 2 months in.

The point is that no one knows current ARR sub number unless you work for SE. So how can you do a fair comparison? All that "SWTOR fails, ARR is major success" is just guessing based on 0 data.

If you want to argue that ARR sub numbers are "growing" too, I'm 95% certain it's not, at least not on JP servers. 2ch regularly keep track of concurrent users on JP servers, the numbers are noticeably lower compare with Aug/Sept 2013.

Also SWTOR went F2P doesn't mean it's failing, and vice versa: ARR still has a monthly sub doesn't mean it's the most profitable model for them. AFAIK SWTOR's F2P model was quite successful: It's one of the most profitable F2P online game in 2013.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1442478-Top-10-Most-Profitable-F2P-games-(plus-WoW)

IMO, ARR simply choose a less profitable model due to SE(and their fans) being too stubborn and SWTOR made a decision to make more money. It's irrelevant to whether a game's successful or not. I also have to point out ARR's monthly sub is slightly cheaper than most other sub based MMO. I only need to spend $10 a month in ARR, I used to spend more in SWTOR before F2P, I also spend more in FFXI and ESO. For some people, if they want to choose between paying $10
a month or $15 a month, they may play the cheaper MMO. That boosted sub numbers, but it may not increase profit with lower sub cost. 500k players paying $15 a month do generate more profit than 200k player paying $10/mo + 400k paying $13/mo you know.

Either way, I think its jumping to conclusion too fast to conclude ARR is a success if we use SWTOR as a standard. I just don't understand where's all that "ARR is successful, SWTOR is not" mentality coming from.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-17 09:01:03
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Afania, you may be forgetting to factor in the "SW" of "SWTOR".

Star Wars folks are pretty damned dedicated* and if it isn't exactly what they want out of their beloved franchise they will turn on it and loathe it, all the while still paying for it and fawning over it.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that "Star Wars Fandom Disorder" is going to be in the next DSM as it's own entry under Personality Disorders.

*Dedicated like Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction

EDIT:As a disclaimer, I'm making a dig at myself here. It's true. I've spent far too much money on lightsabers alone in my lifetime.
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