July Update Confirms Haste II; A Great Return?

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July Update confirms Haste II; a great return?
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-11 15:42:01
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I say we should all bring dancers to main heal!
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By Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget 2014-07-11 15:45:48
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Haste 2 allows melee to cap magic haste with only 1 march and distract 2 with well geared melee can sometimes alleviate the need for madrigal making room for the brd to cast more minuets in a 6 man group. Dia 3 is just a bonus ;)
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-07-11 15:54:21
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This allow corsair to use allie roll and sam roll instead of chaos/hunter!
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By Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget 2014-07-11 15:57:59
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Did a amphibian assault diffcult on rdm the other night with pug, brd rdm pld mnk x3 in less than 4 minutes. This update rocks lol.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-11 16:33:04
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Finally someone acknowledging the awesomeness of Allies roll!!
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By Sieha1 2014-07-11 16:52:37
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One of these years SE will change something to where brd will be interchangeable with something else. Until then, maybe brds should start charging...
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 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-07-11 16:58:45
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Geo work as a replacement for brd if you really can't find one.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-07-11 17:09:46
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GEO's arguably better than BRD for some fights since their haste can't be dispelled
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By Pantafernando 2014-07-11 17:14:28
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And who will give suficient refresh for healers/nukers?

Neither cor pr geo can even come close to 3x ballad+5.
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By Luvbunny1 2014-07-11 17:47:30
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Pantafernando said: »
And who will give suficient refresh for healers/nukers?

Neither cor pr geo can even come close to 3x ballad+5.

Yes sadly a well geared Bard still holds the best slot as party buffers, and a well geared Cor who can DD still gives good buffs compared to Geo spells... I think SE still needs to do more works on RDM and GEO, bring their buffs spells in par with Bard and Corsair buffs.

RDM need to be able to cast Temper to all alliance members just like Haste II, RDM (and Geo) also need Scherzo type of spells (and SMN Titan's version need to be as good or better than the Bard version). Geomancer Attack Up spells should be as good as Corsair rolls, right now, it's 25% vs 12.5% (and Corsair can go over that 25%...). Rdm should have attack up spells, starts at 12% and capped at 15% with enfeebling + Mind calculation.

Dia 3 should be 15% defense down plus 1.25% more every 1 merit you put, and bring it to 20% fully merited.

With those changes, RDM can replace Bard and still have a few other selling points (that is not breaking the game - unless you consider slow II, para II and blind II game breaking). But Temper, Haste 2, Dia 3, Frazzle II, Distract II, Scherzo type spells, and Attack Up Spells... Those spells will put RDM in the front runner as respectable party buffer - and only dedicated well geared BARD will be able to offer more. But at least now you can choose from Bard, Geo, Rdm and Corsair as your buffer. And any combination of those 4 can actually work nicely.
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-07-11 17:47:50
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You don't need 3X ballad+5 to never run out of mp as whm.


For nuker, I don't know what you're talking about, there are no nuke job in this game.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-11 17:50:00
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Evoker+5 is very strong btw <.<
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By Luvbunny1 2014-07-11 17:53:32
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Asura.Ccl said: »
Geo work as a replacement for brd if you really can't find one.

Not really - at this stage, BARD and COR are still the best buffer, with BARD hold number one slots (we are talking Bard that is somewhat serious playing the job and not some Christmas Bards we have been seeing lately...)

However, with the last updates, GEO and RDM makes a very nice combo with either the BARD or the CORSAIR. You could almost get away with your Brd + Rdm OR Cor + Geo, should you are not able to find good Brd + Cor (wallmart corsair need not apply here).

Mnk, Mnk, Sam, Whm, Brd and Rdm/Blm suddenly become an interesting combo. Or you can go with Mnk Mnk, Whm, Geo, Sch, Cor. Sadly a few vital roles will not be replaced - until Sch or Rdm can surpass Whm healing capabilities. All SE needs to do is to make Curaga 3 and Sacrifice starts at level 45 and 49 so you can sub those.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-11 17:55:19
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Why..having each job excel at a specific thing is the way any game should be, otherwise we'd just have a cycle of "my job is now useless fix it".
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-07-11 17:56:24
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why do you need 3 +5 ballads? How bad is your WHM that they're going through that much MP?
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By Luvbunny1 2014-07-11 17:57:03
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Asura.Ccl said: »
You don't need 3X ballad+5 to never run out of mp as whm.

Indeed but a lot of Whms out there will beg to differ, especially when they get paired with a bunch of Christmas Bards who did their jingle balls and deck the carols and do nothing after singing their marches. What Ballad?? Helping haste and status removal and cure the party? No way!! Stona, Paralyna, Erase? That's Whm job not Bard! You know these bards....
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By Pantafernando 2014-07-11 17:57:27
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Lets make all jobs equip all weapons, cast all magics and use all jas to fix the problem of not optimal jobs.
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-07-11 18:03:14
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Seems like you guys need to make friends to play with good people. I never have those issue :P
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By Luvbunny1 2014-07-11 18:04:32
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Why..having each job excel at a specific thing is the way any game should be, otherwise we'd just have a cycle of "my job is now useless fix it".

Indeed, but with these new changes. You have your DD slots (which for now, a bunch of other non flavor of the month DD are DOA - dancer, thief, dragoon, warrior, dark knight - these jobs are still good but try to convince your group that there are other DDs beside Ranger, Monk and Samurai). You have your Buffer slots (Bard and Corsair lock these two slots, a lot of groups claim they cannot and will not do anything endgame without Bard... which is BS, you should be able to win without Bard). Rdm and Geo is somewhat competing on the buffers slot on party, but before the update, they don't bring anything better than Bard + Corsair combo. Healer slot is locked by WHM, during the 75 age, Sch or Rdm pretty much obliterate any chance a Whm has for this slot (Rdm + Brd + Cor and 3 DDs only!!).

SE needs to open up healing slots and buffer slots so that more jobs can be an alternative. You can say that, well now we can have Geo + Rdm + Sch plus 3 DDs - but not having Sacrifice and Curaga 3 (at the very least) hurt. And SE need to bring other DDs to the forefront - kudos for planning to tweak Warrior, Blue Mage and Summoner in the next few updates. Now they can revise Dancer, Thief, Beastmaster, Puppetmaster, Dragoon and Dark Knight as well since it would be nice for those jobs to be a viable candidate.
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By Luvbunny1 2014-07-11 18:10:43
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Pantafernando said: »
Lets make all jobs equip all weapons, cast all magics and use all jas to fix the problem of not optimal jobs.

Warrior can almost equip all weapons, and this job need tweak badly, which they will do soon (finally!!). Blue Mage technically has plenty of variety of magic that can de-buffs the mob (but SE forget to adjust this to level 119 - they mentioned they will tweak blue magic spells - let's hope so). Bard has tons of amazing buffs (which they should be since that's all they are good for) - but giving a few more spells to RDM as buffer will not break the game. It will make a pairing of RDM + BRD become attractive again, or GEO + BRD, or COR. The game need options - and not the Ranger, Mnk, Samurai,Pld, Whm, Bard, and Scholar. As currently those are the VIP jobs at the moment, used in many endgame events.

Pretty much for now, all you can tell to anyone who is coming back is to level WHM or BRD if you want to get anywhere on endgame activities... Or the other three DDs (but you gonna get beaten by others who have better gears than your starting 109-115-117 gears). Or level PLD but you better have Aegis and Ochain or "don't bother coming as PLD" - as others have pointed out. That's not a very nice welcoming advice to any returnee lol. At least there are gazilions solo + small group activities you can do now.
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By Pantafernando 2014-07-11 18:14:28
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Sometimes you guys are worse than pchan.

-> "if it doesnt happen to me, it doesnt exist".
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By Luvbunny1 2014-07-11 18:22:20
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Sieha1 said: »
One of these years SE will change something to where brd will be interchangeable with something else. Until then, maybe brds should start charging...

When they add Scherzo roll to Corsair and let you have three rolls instead of 2, then yeah, get rid of Princess Bard and use Corsair instead :) At least the new Corsair rings add great bonuses to the rolls and make them quite potent as relic bard songs - which is a very nice welcome. Now all SE needs to do is to add more spells or increase spells potency of Geo and Rdm so they too, can be almost close to equal to Bard when it comes to buffs. Bard still should be the best buffers job in the game.
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By Bismarck.Inference 2014-07-11 19:03:14
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From pure DPS standpoint, GEO is better than BRD already with just +5 handbell. Assuming you can use Haste+Defense Down(WHM doesn't need refresh or whatever), Geo-Haste + Defense Down + Dia II + Normal Haste(done by you or your WHM) should be about equal to Marchx2 + Normal Haste + Dia II + 3 Minuets assuming you have +5 songs. Drop to +4 and GEO option pulls ahead. Bolster in this scenario would pull ahead of Soul Voice significantly(mainly talking about Minuet x3 vs Frailty here, since you're capped haste in both scenarios regardless of 1hr). If by some grace of god your GEO has Ergon weapon, its' not even a contest(only using +10 to GEO effects not +15 since report is they don't stack).

I'd also assume Blaze of Glory on Defense Down would easily crush anything a BRD could Marcato(didn't use Blaze at all in these comparisons).

Keep in mind BRD couldn't even play 5 songs unless he has 99 Daurdabla and was planning on keeping Clarion Call's effect up for an entire run. This does however assume your WHM can survive without any form of MP refresh, there's no underlying accuracy issues that can't be fixed by reasonable accuracy swaps, and there's no need for something like Scherzo. Those 3 situations obviously start to favor the BRD.

Its a long shot, but for something like Delve 1.0 if you only want to bring 1 buffer, GEO is probably the way to go.
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By Luvbunny1 2014-07-11 19:35:17
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The JSE handbell is very obtainable AKA no serious GEO should be without this thing. Does Haste stack with Geo-Haste? Even if we can assume that Geo could be an acceptable replacement for Bard, it would take some convincing to tell people to skip bringing Bard on delve 1.0 :)
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-07-11 20:00:02
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Cause people are either idiot or don't want to try new thing, people still shout for 3 mnk/run for shark all days.
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