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Random Politics & Religion #00
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-11-21 23:16:53
We pretty much knew all of that already lol. The "stand down" rumor was junk from the start.
What part of the stand down order? The security agents who wanted to go to the embassy to help were told to stand down, according to their own testimonies.
Yeah and guess what? They were at best, exaggerating, but really, we all know they took a paycheck to appear on Fox News and "exaggerate." They were never ordered to stand down, they were told they weren't going anywhere without orders by their team leader. There is a clear difference, and it didn't fool the House committee, or anyone with a brain.
Did you just the assert that the members of the House committee had a brain?
Well the report was actually sensible, so I give them credit, they basically fully exonerated the CIA, and put it on the lack of security at the embassy, which was always the case.
By Jetackuu 2014-11-21 23:17:44
We pretty much knew all of that already lol. The "stand down" rumor was junk from the start.
What part of the stand down order? The security agents who wanted to go to the embassy to help were told to stand down, according to their own testimonies.
Yeah and guess what? They were at best, exaggerating, but really, we all know they took a paycheck to appear on Fox News and "exaggerate." They were never ordered to stand down, they were told they weren't going anywhere without orders by their team leader. There is a clear difference, and it didn't fool the House committee, or anyone with a brain.
Did you just the assert that the members of the House committee had a brain?
Well the report was actually sensible, so I give them credit, they basically fully exonerated the CIA, and put it on the lack of security at the embassy, which was always the case. So who was it that wouldn't appropriate funds to increase security? or just close the embassy?
 Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-11-21 23:18:47
We pretty much knew all of that already lol. The "stand down" rumor was junk from the start.
What part of the stand down order? The security agents who wanted to go to the embassy to help were told to stand down, according to their own testimonies.
Yeah and guess what? They were at best, exaggerating, but really, we all know they took a paycheck to appear on Fox News and "exaggerate." They were never ordered to stand down, they were told they weren't going anywhere without orders by their team leader. There is a clear difference, and it didn't fool the House committee, or anyone with a brain.
No, they weren't exaggerating. They came out and said that the government official in charge told them to stand down. They never lied about who gave the order (e.g. Hillary, Obama, etc.), they just told it like it was. I just wanted you to clarify what you meant by the stand down order rumor being junk. It happened, it just wasn't explicitly stated how far up it went because they didn't know.
By Jetackuu 2014-11-21 23:19:41
Either way: it's irrelevant.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
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Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-21 23:21:49
Lets really blow your simple little mind and say that this whole global warming thing has happen before! It's happened numerous times actually. It doesn't contradict the fact that it is happening now or why it's happening. Now...
Something amazing happened while I've been away. Didn't think it would have been possible to get everyone to agree the warming has stopped for 15-18yrs. Then Nausi say this.
Quote: In the big picture, it really isn't. The whole fulcrum of the alarmist's attitude is more CO2 = more warming. The last 18 years have seen the HIGHEST concentrations of CO2 since the industrial revolution. Yet there has been is NO warming.
Clearly CO2 (human existence) isn't driving the climate car.
Which should have been /thread. But No.
Pleebo does this.
I realize there's no point talking to you about this because it isn't really about science. With deniers, it's solely political as demonstrated by your complete avoidance or incoherence when actually confronted with the evidence. It does help me refamiliarize myself with the topic though since I don't much deal with climate studies anymore. Thanks!
But us conservatives are branded the "crazy irrational ones". Care to comment on my actual reply to that post?
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Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-11-21 23:27:28
No, they weren't exaggerating. They came out and said that the government official in charge told them to stand down. They never lied about who gave the order (e.g. Hillary, Obama, etc.), they just told it like it was. I just wanted you to clarify what you meant by the stand down order rumor being junk. It happened, it just wasn't explicitly stated how far up it went because they didn't know.
They were absolutely exaggerating. Like I said, there is a clear difference between being ordered to stand down and being told to wait for orders. I guess I have to spell it out, being told to stand down means you are done, de-equip yourself, pack up your gear, and go back to bed. This order was never given, as evidence by the fact that they actually did go to the embassy. So yeah, they took a paycheck to exaggerate. And they were given no credence.
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-11-21 23:27:38
Hear me out a moment, Pleebo. I'd like you to show us all that you actually have the capacity to rise above the fray here and play devil's advocate. Right now you're as rigid and one-sided as the people you're arguing with, but I'd like to see some examples of ways that you think the climate change industry could have done things better over the past several decades.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-21 23:29:13
Could have hung Al Gore, that's for sure.
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Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-11-21 23:31:33
No, they weren't exaggerating. They came out and said that the government official in charge told them to stand down. They never lied about who gave the order (e.g. Hillary, Obama, etc.), they just told it like it was. I just wanted you to clarify what you meant by the stand down order rumor being junk. It happened, it just wasn't explicitly stated how far up it went because they didn't know.
They were absolutely exaggerating. Like I said, there is a clear difference between being ordered to stand down and being told to wait for orders. I guess I have to spell it out, being told to stand down means you are done, de-equip yourself, pack up your gear, and go back to bed. This order was never given, as evidence by the fact that they actually did go to the embassy. So yeah, they took a paycheck to exaggerate. And they were given no credence.
Since you weren't there, I'm more likely to side with the people who were actually there. Could they have lied? Absolutely. But if they lied, they sure picked one of the most conservative possible lies to go with. They were willing to go into enemy fire to save the lives of people regardless, and you're just some random dude on an internet forum who has a vendetta against conservatives.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-21 23:32:12
What do you mean by industry?
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-11-21 23:32:16
Could have hung Al Gore, that's for sure.
Thanks for getting the most obvious one out of the way!
By Bloodrose 2014-11-21 23:34:38
Any sensible person, liberal or conservative, makes fun of the absurdity that is Al Gore.
Though he's reaping huge monetary benefits from both sides, so that might make him a genius, and we're all the stooges.
By Jetackuu 2014-11-21 23:35:17
I'd have personally pushed for solar panels on government buildings, instead of pushing for hydroelectric or solar plants, but I of am the personal mindset of less reliance on the electric grid the better, so a bit of a bias there.
But that's more of saying something about the general person spouting for clean energy than what they actually do, as I'm not too familiar with any hydroelectric plants that aren't at least somewhat efficient.
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-11-21 23:35:24
What do you mean by industry?
I tried to leave it rather broad, but to be more specific this could go back to my point about the groups that have received government funds to research climate change, regardless of sector.
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By Altimaomega 2014-11-21 23:38:44
Lets really blow your simple little mind and say that this whole global warming thing has happen before! It's happened numerous times actually. It doesn't contradict the fact that it is happening now or why it's happening. Now...
Something amazing happened while I've been away. Didn't think it would have been possible to get everyone to agree the warming has stopped for 15-18yrs. Then Nausi say this.
Quote: In the big picture, it really isn't. The whole fulcrum of the alarmist's attitude is more CO2 = more warming. The last 18 years have seen the HIGHEST concentrations of CO2 since the industrial revolution. Yet there has been is NO warming.
Clearly CO2 (human existence) isn't driving the climate car.
Which should have been /thread. But No.
Pleebo does this.
I realize there's no point talking to you about this because it isn't really about science. With deniers, it's solely political as demonstrated by your complete avoidance or incoherence when actually confronted with the evidence. It does help me refamiliarize myself with the topic though since I don't much deal with climate studies anymore. Thanks!
But us conservatives are branded the "crazy irrational ones". Care to comment on my actual reply to that post?
Open up the PDF on that page and take a look at the 1000's of buoys they have all over the world taking temp readings constantly.. I can find no information on how long those buoys have been there, when they started placing them or anything. For all we know they have been there for only 10-20yrs.
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Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-11-21 23:40:28
I'd have personally pushed for solar panels on government buildings, instead of pushing for hydroelectric or solar plants, but I of am the personal mindset of less reliance on the electric grid the better, so a bit of a bias there.
But that's more of saying something about the general person spouting for clean energy than what they actually do, as I'm not too familiar with any hydroelectric plants that aren't at least somewhat efficient.
I'm surprised you didn't mention nuclear, but I guess that's hotly debated over whether or not it's "clean energy".
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-11-21 23:56:08
Since you weren't there, I'm more likely to side with the people who were actually there. Could they have lied? Absolutely. But if they lied, they sure picked one of the most conservative possible lies to go with. They were willing to go into enemy fire to save the lives of people regardless, and you're just some random dude on an internet forum who has a vendetta against conservatives.
lol, really? Did you side with Dylan Davies as well when he came out and declared his heroics the night of the attack? Because I didn't, I thought he was lying the entire time, no part of his story was believable, yet 60 minutes and the rest of the media ran with it. And low and behold, the guy was exposed as a liar looking for a payday.
By Jetackuu 2014-11-21 23:58:30
I'd have personally pushed for solar panels on government buildings, instead of pushing for hydroelectric or solar plants, but I of am the personal mindset of less reliance on the electric grid the better, so a bit of a bias there.
But that's more of saying something about the general person spouting for clean energy than what they actually do, as I'm not too familiar with any hydroelectric plants that aren't at least somewhat efficient.
I'm surprised you didn't mention nuclear, but I guess that's hotly debated over whether or not it's "clean energy". I'm fine with nuclear, it's got it's issues, but as far as efficiency is concerned, it's where it's at, and building newer plants/reactors will only reduce the amount of byproduct waste generated/make it safer.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-22 00:01:16
I guess I'm not understanding the premise of the question. Better than what? I'm not qualified to answer anything regarding the technology sector which apparently received the lion's share of the funding. As far as the research goes, it progresses at the pace it progresses. Would it have been nice if it was faster? More accurate? Sure, but science moves at a slow pace and there's much trial-and-error. I'm not sure how to suddenly improve upon that.
Open up the PDF on that page and take a look at the 1000's of buoys they have all over the world taking temp readings constantly.. I can find no information on how long those buoys have been there, when they started placing them or anything. For all we know they have been there for only 10-20yrs. The data was mostly taken from the World Ocean Database. The types of buoys they used show a common measurement record of about 1960 to present, which coincides with the timeline on the graphs.
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-11-22 00:02:59
Since you weren't there, I'm more likely to side with the people who were actually there. Could they have lied? Absolutely. But if they lied, they sure picked one of the most conservative possible lies to go with. They were willing to go into enemy fire to save the lives of people regardless, and you're just some random dude on an internet forum who has a vendetta against conservatives.
lol, really? Did you side with Dylan Davies as well when he came out and declared his heroics the night of the attack? Because I didn't, I thought he was lying the entire time, no part of his story was believable, yet 60 minutes and the rest of the media ran with it. And low and behold, the guy was exposed as a liar looking for a payday.
Who? I was mostly referring to the Annex Security Team, in particular Mark Geist and Chris Paronto.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-22 00:23:37
Also, I don't get people's beef with Al Gore. He was involved in environmental issues since he started in Congress. His documentary actually brought climate change to everyone's attention even if he got a few very minor details wrong. The fact that he invested in green energy just makes him a capitalist. Not sure why that's a bad thing now.
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-11-22 00:28:13
Also, I don't get people's beef with Al Gore. He was involved in environmental issues since he started in Congress. His documentary actually brought climate change to everyone's attention even if he got a few very minor details wrong. The fact that he invested in green energy just makes him a capitalist. Not sure why that's a bad thing now.
You can't see why people don't like Al Gore? That... that says a lot actually. Huh. I guess I'll throw in this Bloodrose post for emphasis.
Any sensible person, liberal or conservative, makes fun of the absurdity that is Al Gore.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-22 00:43:28
is there a particular reason i shouldnt like him?
By Altimaomega 2014-11-22 00:55:46
is there a particular reason i shouldnt like him?
No you're his perfect mate.
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 Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2014-11-22 01:20:24
I guess I'm not understanding the premise of the question. Better than what? I'm not qualified to answer anything regarding the technology sector which apparently received the lion's share of the funding. As far as the research goes, it progresses at the pace it progresses. Would it have been nice if it was faster? More accurate? Sure, but science moves at a slow pace and there's much trial-and-error. I'm not sure how to suddenly improve upon that.
Technology received the lion's share of money since 2001. Cleantech didn't start being funded until 1994, iirc, and before 2001 it had very, very limited funding.
Before that climate change research was focused more on the science (literally what one paper stated).
Hear me out a moment, Pleebo. I'd like you to show us all that you actually have the capacity to rise above the fray here and play devil's advocate. Right now you're as rigid and one-sided as the people you're arguing with, but I'd like to see some examples of ways that you think the climate change industry could have done things better over the past several decades.
1. Better science education in general, so citizens actually understand the scientific method, writing/reading scientific papers, data collection, statistical analysis, and probability
2. Give interviews to compentent journalists who represent the papers and researchers correctly, rather than creating click bait titles (before internet: dramatic headlines) to sell more papers, subscriptions, etc
3. Along with #2 hiring marketing and communications professionals who are able to combat the negative spins quickly and illustrate the postives, rather than relying on scientists to help communicate this to people who work outside their field
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Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-22 02:30:56
I'm just confused by this line of conversation. What are people expecting for the money spent? Apparently, they haven't done enough. So what exactly is enough? It's rather vague and just comes off as empty criticism.
I was thinking along similar lines as you, Kara, but they just seem like good ideas in general and not really specific to the "industry". My biggest problem with our current situation is that an inherently non-political issue has been politicized and distorted with misinformation and plain ignorance. I guess the message could get more aggressive, but I think we're at the point now where convincing the holdouts is a pointless endeavor and combating the denial machine is just a waste of resources. If the concern now is "Are we doing enough?" then I take that as progress even if it's done reluctantly.
By Altimaomega 2014-11-22 03:08:04
I'm just confused by this line of conversation. What are people expecting for the money spent? Apparently, they haven't done enough. So what exactly is enough? It's rather vague and just comes off as empty criticism.
I was thinking along similar lines as you, Kara, but they just seem like good ideas in general and not really specific to the "industry". My biggest problem with our current situation is that an inherently non-political issue has been politicized and distorted with misinformation and plain ignorance. I guess the message could get more aggressive, but I think we're at the point now where convincing the holdouts is a pointless endeavor and combating the denial machine is just a waste of resources. If the concern now is "Are we doing enough?" then I take that as progress even if it's done reluctantly. 
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-22 03:20:20
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Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-22 03:56:11
Ok, I think I have a clearer answer to the question now. The climate change industry (whatever that means) needs to copy what China is doing.
It's more policy oriented (and China has the luxury of being able to, um, push their legislation much more efficiently than we do), but let's just copy/paste dat ***. BOOK IT DONE
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-11-22 08:40:03
Ok, I think I have a clearer answer to the question now. The climate change industry (whatever that means) needs to copy what China is doing.
It's more policy oriented (and China has the luxury of being able to, um, push their legislation much more efficiently than we do), but let's just copy/paste dat ***. BOOK IT DONE
I do find it interesting that you went from having a hard time finding out one thing that we could've done better, then decided that we should do what China is doing, which would mean doing a LOT of things differently. Still, it's a better answer than just shifting the blame to the public.
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