Does Anarchy On The Playground Stop Bullying?

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Does Anarchy on the Playground Stop Bullying?
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-23 07:24:26
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Very insightful experiment going on in New Zealand.
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Chaos may reign at Swanson Primary School with children climbing trees, riding skateboards and playing bullrush during playtime, but surprisingly the students don't cause bedlam, the principal says.

The school is actually seeing a drop in bullying, serious injuries and vandalism, while concentration levels in class are increasing.
Source

Why is this an experiment? Well according to the Huffington Post:
Quote:
Previously, the students were not allowed to engage in playground activities like climbing trees or riding bikes, McLauchlan told Australian radio station 720 Perth. While he says the playground is now more chaotic looking, it is also safer.

“What happens is when you let kids do anything they like is that they actually don’t go and purposefully hurt themselves,” McLauchlan said to the radio station.
Source

A report by Esquire had the following to say about the roots of the problem:
Quote:
To an astonishing degree, boys are being diagnosed with ADHD reflexively, absent any meaningful evaluation and, as a result, a lot of them are being put on powerful medications that can seriously mess with their health and development,

both physical and mental. The problem of unreliable ADHD diagnoses and overmedication has been acknowledged before, but I came away believing that few people understand just how pervasive the problem is.

Few people understand that it’s a crisis.

One true high point of the experience was encountering Howard Glasser, founder of the Center for the Difficult Child in Tucson, Ariz. Glasser created a therapeutic method called the Nurtured Heart Approach, which is now practiced by a

growing number of therapists in the United States.
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Of course a lot of people may remember growing up where playing and getting hurt as a kid was considered normal. However, as times have changed so has the policies enacted in schools. Do these new methods work? Or are they creating a huge problem for future generations to come?
 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-23 07:40:19
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As someone who has worked with kids for years and, more to the point, studied a wide swath of both anecdotal and scientific literature on the subject of childhood development and pedagogical methodology, all I can say is: it's about damned time someone noticed this.

But maybe I'm just lucky that my first grade school, way back in the late '80s, already knew all about this stuff. Why would a manufacturing and port town with a population less than 10,000 grasp this ahead of other places... is the question I would ask if I didn't already know the answer.

I wasn't even that rambunctious a boy, but the transition to what people think of as traditional classroom structure when I moved to a new town and started parochial school in 3rd grade was rocky at best.
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By fonewear 2014-04-23 08:06:50
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The way to prevent bullying is to become a bully.
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 Sylph.Knala
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By Sylph.Knala 2014-04-23 08:54:42
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
As someone who has worked with kids for years and, more to the point, studied a wide swath of both anecdotal and scientific literature on the subject of childhood development and pedagogical methodology, all I can say is: it's about damned time someone noticed this.

But maybe I'm just lucky that my first grade school, way back in the late '80s, already knew all about this stuff. Why would a manufacturing and port town with a population less than 10,000 grasp this ahead of other places... is the question I would ask if I didn't already know the answer.

I wasn't even that rambunctious a boy, but the transition to what people think of as traditional classroom structure when I moved to a new town and started parochial school in 3rd grade was rocky at best.

Its because every damn parent in america is lawsuit happy every one wants to get rich quick the second something goes wrong, thats why they cant just let kids go wild what if suzy falls and breakers her arm when playing on the monkey bars?
 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-23 09:21:54
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Your opening statement and concluding point do not match.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-04-23 09:38:54
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fonewear said: »
The way to prevent bullying is to become a bully.
That prevents you from being bullied and subsequently makes someone else the victim of bullying though...
 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-04-23 09:43:33
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Not every damn parent is lawsuit happy. People seem to have this misconception these days that every single person sues over the drop of hat. This is false.

Also, unless they can prove that the injury occurred through the negligence of the staff then there is no case and you just wasted money taking them to court and risk a countersuit for damages.

However, if this is some kind of study or change in policy being conducted and the parents/guardians are not made aware of the change before it goes into effect then there could be an issue.
 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-23 10:08:22
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
the parents/guardians are not made aware
Parents are *** stupid. Do they have to go through multiple years of schooling and maintain their education for years of their lives in order to keep their kids? Their opinions are worth bupkis.

Ye gods, reading that hand-wringing nonsense reminds me why conservatives think all liberals are lemon-scented pussy wipes.

And it's hardly a radical change in policy to say, "Hmm, maybe we should let kids be kids instead of treating them like statues and medicating them into stupidity, criminality, or suicide." I suspect very few really have no grasp of how hugely overprescribed AMPHETAMINES are to little boys on the basis of sexist discrimination. That's what Ritalin is: speed for schoolkids. Literally.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-23 10:11:24
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Not every damn parent is lawsuit happy. People seem to have this misconception these days that every single person sues over the drop of hat. This is false.

Also, unless they can prove that the injury occurred through the negligence of the staff then there is no case and you just wasted money taking them to court and risk a countersuit for damages.

However, if this is some kind of study or change in policy being conducted and the parents/guardians are not made aware of the change before it goes into effect then there could be an issue.
Maybe it varies with the area, but I do remember people who always had the mindset of, whatever I'll just sue if that happens. A lot of people were able to afford lake property that way.
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By Siren.Mosin 2014-04-23 10:14:33
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Parents are *** stupid.

wellllllla *** you too, buddy.

It's not like you have to be a genius to teach grade school, either.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-04-23 10:17:49
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
the parents/guardians are not made aware
Parents are *** stupid. Do they have to go through multiple years of schooling and maintain their education for years of their lives in order to keep their kids? Their opinions are worth bupkis.

Ye gods, reading that hand-wringing nonsense reminds me why conservatives think all liberals are lemon-scented pussy wipes.

And it's hardly a radical change in policy to say, "Hmm, maybe we should let kids be kids instead of treating them like statues and medicating them into stupidity, criminality, or suicide." I suspect very few really have no grasp of how hugely overprescribed AMPHETAMINES are to little boys on the basis of sexist discrimination. That's what Ritalin is: speed for schoolkids. Literally.
Parents being stupid or not doesn't matter. They're the parents and they have a fundamental right in how they're children are raised.

You making the assumption that the teacher knows better than the parent because they went to school is laughable. Many teachers are glorified babysitters or only know the subject matter at hand and struggle to even convey that knowledge to the students. Our failing education system says hello.

In any case, someone brought up lawsuits and I was responding to that. What would have to happen for a parent to file a valid lawsuit. If parents think they're in an environment that certain things don't take place then all of a sudden you're child comes home as a result of the change then there's an issue. Most sane people take the route of kids will be kids and move on but yeah... ***happens.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-23 10:19:39
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Parents need to pay attention and be more active and not pass the buck to teachers and the community.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-04-23 10:20:44
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Not every damn parent is lawsuit happy. People seem to have this misconception these days that every single person sues over the drop of hat. This is false.

Also, unless they can prove that the injury occurred through the negligence of the staff then there is no case and you just wasted money taking them to court and risk a countersuit for damages.

However, if this is some kind of study or change in policy being conducted and the parents/guardians are not made aware of the change before it goes into effect then there could be an issue.
Maybe it varies with the area, but I do remember people who always had the mindset of, whatever I'll just sue if that happens. A lot of people were able to afford lake property that way.
Some people do but many of those people don't have any idea what it would take to sue someone how expensive it could be or how long the process takes. Many people don't even have a case but think they do. The ones that bust my balls the most are the ones that companies settle pre-trial because it would honestly cost them 4 times as much to defend it in court whether they were liable or not.
 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-04-23 10:24:27
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Parents need to pay attention and be more active and not pass the buck to teachers and the community.
You can't really pay attention to your kid when he or she is at school. There are cases where the community or teachers are at fault. While I do think parents taking an active role in their childs life is a good thing I've also had many complain about those that do... one's that are overbearing or whatever lol... Parents are tasked with the difficult job of raising and shaping a life in a world with a million different voices coming at the children every day. One says you should do this... another that! Finding a balance that works for your family and such can be a tough thing to do.
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By Ragnarok.Tatsiki 2014-04-23 10:25:04
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Teachers need to do their *** jobs and actually step in.

I got bullied in middle school all the time because of my anti-social behavior (I'm a lot better now thankfully) and when people were picking on me, there was this one teacher whom hated tattle telling. Well, when it got to the point I was on the verge of tears, I went to her to try and get help, she basically told me to buzz off (the words perfectly "I don't like tattle tells, just get away from them")


Needless to say, that teacher is the most hated in the school for how she runs and STILL holds her job to this day despite so many people hating her. She won't help those who are being bullied, and it comes down to a simple matter of stepping in when someone is being bullied.

Leaving them high and dry is what increases suicide rates, believe me it's not ok to let this kind of crap go on.

If I see bullying go on, I'll step in, because I didn't get the help I needed, I'm going to at least prevent it from happening to someone else when I can prevent it.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-23 10:26:25
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By paying attention, I mean researching or looking into the things their kids are involved in or with. Don't have to be overbearing to research the games they play or the shows they watch.
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-23 10:29:26
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Siren.Mosin said: »
It's not like you have to be a genius to teach grade school, either.
Teaching grade school has almost nothing to do with intelligence, at least not in the classical academic sense. That's the whole problem with our primary education system: we keep applying academics where it is inappropriate.

The elementary school in my neighborhood runs 10.5 months out of the year and, from what I have seen, barely even has lunchtime recess, much less outdoor activities, in spite of having a brand-spanking-new playground and lots of green space. I haven't seen what their hours are, but I suspect they spend more time in school than I did as a kid.

I've mentioned in the occasional school shooting thread that pops up that violence in schools is way down from our parents' and grandparents' years. I suspect this is a result of a cultural shift. Our parents could expect to have violence visited upon them for any slight and, consequently, came to use violence as a response to threat. Now that kids are being raised correctly, that is, without so-called "corporal punishment" to teach them fear and hatred, they lash out less.

But the violence that does happen has been considerably worse. It not only tends to involve weapons, but the intent is murder rather than injury. I can't help but wonder how much of that ought to be attributed to treating kids like automata and we're all just acting shocked when the little robot slips a gear. It sure doesn't help that our education system is shockingly sexist and has only gotten worse in the past 50 years as the few men left in primary education have been all but edged out.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-04-23 10:32:41
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
By paying attention, I mean researching or looking into the things their kids are involved in or with. Don't have to be overbearing to research the games they play or the shows they watch.
My parents would just tell me I couldn't watch em if they didn't like em. I couldn't watch the simpsons until I was 14 because they said things like hell or damn and eat my shorts or whatever lol...

In any case, I'm not advocating against what you're saying but it could turn out to be one of those well if this is how they're going to do it I'm going to write a note and my child will no longer participate in this kind of environment.
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By Siren.Mosin 2014-04-23 10:37:35
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"bullying" has been the most asinine cause du jour to date, right alongside "second hand smoke"
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-23 10:39:51
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
They're the parents and they have a fundamental right in how they're children are raised.
Then they can pay for private school. Or get a voucher to go to a charter school. Or apply for a magnet school if there happens to be one in the city. Or show up for once at a school board meeting (where, at least in the US, this sort of policy change would have been mentioned months in advance). Or actually participate in their kids' lives and talk to the teacher.

Do kids even have parent-teacher conferences anymore? Someone with crotch-dumplings, do tell. It's an easy bet that if they've stopped, it was because parents weren't showing up. After two generations of raising kids by letting them be babysat by Uncle Television, it's no wonder so many parents are completely dissociated from their kids' lives.

I suppose it can be worse, though. The helicopter parents who are trying to fix their failed youth (or relive the last time they let themselves be happy) by stripping their kids of any personality or self-sustenance need to be fed into a wood-chipper.
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By Siren.Mosin 2014-04-23 10:42:00
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Do kids even have parent-teacher conferences anymore?

out here yeah, but I'm in the middle of no where.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-04-23 10:51:20
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
They're the parents and they have a fundamental right in how they're children are raised.
Then they can pay for private school. Or get a voucher to go to a charter school. Or apply for a magnet school if there happens to be one in the city. Or show up for once at a school board meeting (where, at least in the US, this sort of policy change would have been mentioned months in advance). Or actually participate in their kids' lives and talk to the teacher.

Do kids even have parent-teacher conferences anymore? Someone with crotch-dumplings, do tell. It's an easy bet that if they've stopped, it was because parents weren't showing up. After two generations of raising kids by letting them be babysat by Uncle Television, it's no wonder so many parents are completely dissociated from their kids' lives.

I suppose it can be worse, though. The helicopter parents who are trying to fix their failed youth (or relive the last time they let themselves be happy) by stripping their kids of any personality or self-sustenance need to be fed into a wood-chipper.
Whether you agree or not parents still do have the right to have a say so in the upbringing of their child good parents or not as long as it isn't substatially harming the child. They are to be made aware of the policies of the school and they can make the choice whether their child participates in elective activities like that.

Take solace in the fact that parents that don't care enough to do the PT conferences and such probably don't care enough to get involved in anything else either so yea...
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-23 10:55:08
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I'm trying to remember when we last had a parent-teacher night when I was in school. I want to say... maybe 4th or 5th grade? And that was when I attended a K-8 school.

You might imagine there was no reason to bother for me, too, since I was relatively quiet and aced my classes. But I never did homework, which is something that ought to have been discussed. I didn't do it because it bored me and contributed nothing to my learning. It does work for some folks, though.

In fact, *** it: here's the Wikipedia article for my very first elementary school and its three approaches to education -- Mast Landing School. It is very clear how being in a school system that took this stuff seriously has shaped me, especially after I saw how it was on the other side. I was put in the Spring Hill program in 2nd grade and it was exactly the right fit for an auto-didact who needed a varied group with whom to socialize (some of our classes were 2nd-5th mixed). Homework wasn't assigned, everything was done in the school. And we had a huge playground. And if kids needed a more structured learning environment, that's what the Harraseeket program (it was just called "classroom curriculum" as I recall) was for.

It somewhat baffles me that our school system is so patently stupid, but then I remember that it is an arm of the government. That means everything has to be measurable and controllable, everything adheres to budgets and protocols and routines. You make those damned kids pass the test or we won't pay you; what does it matter that the test is on meaningless trivia that makes so little impact in day-to-day life that people regularly forget it in time to look stupid on a Jeff Foxworthy-hosted game show? It sure doesn't help that the really adept teachers, the ones who we desperately need teaching 8-year-olds, are doing everything they can to work in high schools or universities just so they can afford to eat the fancy brand of ramen noodles.
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-23 10:58:08
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Take solace in the fact that parents that don't care enough to do the PT conferences and such probably don't care enough to get involved in anything else either so yea...
You really believe that, don't you? The first time most parents arrive at school board meetings and PTA meetings and similar is when they have a complaint to make. Hell, when was the last time you went to a city council meeting to learn about what new laws will be affecting you directly?

Just read any news article about a school book banning. They're almost always initiated by someone who has taken zero interest in their child's education but either noticed a cuss word in their high schooler's reading assignment or, more likely, read some blithering nonsense circulating for the 200th time through FaceBook.
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By Creaucent Alazrin 2014-04-23 11:12:13
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When I was a kid I broke 4 of my fingers messing about with my dad ywah it hurt but it was what happens when you were a kid back then. This day and age I would imagine some goodie goodie who thinks they know better would get the authorities involved because some people just cant help making other peoples business their own.
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-04-23 11:20:29
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Does anarchy on the playground stop bullying? Or does bullying stop playground anarchy?
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-23 11:29:20
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I'm reminded of Yeats:

"Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world."

The modifier to the word "anarchy" was far from accidental.
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 Ragnarok.Tatsiki
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By Ragnarok.Tatsiki 2014-04-23 12:34:18
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When it comes to actual picking on a student, yeah that's a legitimate thing. It's not cool, and no anarchy won't stop bullying, it'll just mean bullies won't run the risk of teachers getting onto them.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-04-23 12:42:35
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Take solace in the fact that parents that don't care enough to do the PT conferences and such probably don't care enough to get involved in anything else either so yea...
You really believe that, don't you? The first time most parents arrive at school board meetings and PTA meetings and similar is when they have a complaint to make. Hell, when was the last time you went to a city council meeting to learn about what new laws will be affecting you directly?

Just read any news article about a school book banning. They're almost always initiated by someone who has taken zero interest in their child's education but either noticed a cuss word in their high schooler's reading assignment or, more likely, read some blithering nonsense circulating for the 200th time through FaceBook.
The parents that don't actually care will not. The only time they will come to anything is if they think they can profit.

Your problem is that you focus on single events reported by the media. My brother, for example, is a teacher and he tells me all the time about how only 2 or 3 parents ever show up for any parent - teacher conferences and those are the ones that are doing well already.

A school book banning? That has nothing to do with the child. It's self interest in preserving whatever they and honestly they wouldn't even have a clue that it happened if they weren't paying attention a bit as they would be oblivious to any change.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-23 12:48:05
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K. Go on putting fingers in your ears and shouting "la la la." Dunno what the hell kind of argument you're trying to prop up and I've lost any interest, too. You do that well.
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