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Free Soda Refill Can Be a Federal Offense
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-19 22:45:51
It's the Corn Industrial Complex.
Quote: Tracking the history of corn in American agriculture, the film shows how U.S. Agricultural Secretary Earl Butz, under Richard Nixon, changed U.S. farm policy to one based on increased production, planting corn “fence row to fence row.” Filmmakers Document the Corn Industrial Complex, from Field to Table
Quote: Corn ethanol contributes to rises in food prices because of competition for arable land to grow food. With more corn for biofuels taking up that space, the price of grains and other agricultural products increases.
For many in the developing world, rising prices mean they don’t eat. People in poor countries, especially in import-heavy sub-Saharan Africa, feel the impact of rising food prices far worse than in developed countries. This is because they spend so much more of their income on food….Poor people do not have that luxury. As the UN Reported (in October), 26 countries, mainly in sub-Saharan Africa, are still at extreme risk of hunger, with biofuels playing a significant role in exacerbating the problem. Corn Used to Create US Biofuel is Enough to Feed 412 Million People for a Year
Fenrir.Schutz
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By Fenrir.Schutz 2014-04-19 22:50:02
Theft is theft, period. I don't really care how much he was fined, and this isn't a case of a person losing their job because of their opinion/sexual orientation/whatever, this a person that lost their job for committing a crime. Repeatedly. He probably thought the VA cafeteria was an easy mark, like I said, shoplifters aren't first timers. Even if he didn't, he got busted. Too bad. When you really get into it, the only thing he stole was some HFCS, caramel coloring, and possibly some caffeine if it was caffeinated obviously. H20 and CO2 are usually free.
OK? He was still knowingly committing a crime, unless you believe his BS story about not seeing the "No refills" signs on a daily basis? A crime seems like a rather harsh word though. It seems that whether or not this was criminal lies in Christopher's behavior rather than his actual actions that fateful day.
I can't believe he had the Bawls to think he could just get a Pepsi Free. But it's sad that the VA didn't even have the Moxie to allow him to just pay his Tab. ;_; To compound things, the loss of the job must have been a total Crush. :/
Oh crap, not page 2 yet. Too early for the stupid puns? @_@;;
EDIT: Thanks, Chaosx, for the page! ^^
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-19 22:51:42
Theft is theft, period. I don't really care how much he was fined, and this isn't a case of a person losing their job because of their opinion/sexual orientation/whatever, this a person that lost their job for committing a crime. Repeatedly. He probably thought the VA cafeteria was an easy mark, like I said, shoplifters aren't first timers. Even if he didn't, he got busted. Too bad. When you really get into it, the only thing he stole was some HFCS, caramel coloring, and possibly some caffeine if it was caffeinated obviously. H20 and CO2 are usually free.
OK? He was still knowingly committing a crime, unless you believe his BS story about not seeing the "No refills" signs on a daily basis? A crime seems like a rather harsh word though. It seems that whether or not this was criminal lies in Christopher's behavior rather than his actual actions that fateful day.
I can't believe he had the Bawls to think he could just get a Pepsi Free. But it's sad that the VA didn't even have the Moxie to allow him to just pay his Tab. ;_; To compound things, the loss of the job must have been a total Crush. :/
Oh crap, not page 2 yet. Too early for the stupid puns? @_@;;
EDIT: Thanks, Chaosx, for the page! ^^ No prob.
You bring up a good point. Why did they not allow him to pay for it when caught?
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-19 22:55:35
I can't believe he had the Bawls to think he could just get a Pepsi Free. But it's sad that the VA didn't even have the Moxie to allow him to just pay his Tab. ;_; To compound things, the loss of the job must have been a total Crush. :/ Someone else in the world knows what Moxie is? That's some hardcore regional soda knowledge.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-19 23:00:58
If it really was the Chief of Police then it was an obvious trap. The cafeteria had had enough of this guy and complained to the cops. I mean really, you could ask that question to every shop owner that catches a kid shoplifting, why not let him go so he can rip off other shops?
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-19 23:06:17
If it really was the Chief of Police then it was an obvious trap. The cafeteria had had enough of this guy and complained to the cops. I mean really, you could ask that question to every shop owner that catches a kid shoplifting, why not let him go so he can rip off other shops? Why not just let him pay when confronted? If it's really about the money that is.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-19 23:10:40
That's the thing: it's not strictly about the money so much as confronting the crime. The money is the crime, but the reaction is to the action: blatant theft and the habit that informs it.
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By Odin.Calipso 2014-04-19 23:15:45
Stealing is stealing. Doesn't matter how little the thing is worth. That being said, most shop owners decline to press charges for little things when people are caught, and opt for a store banning/warning.
When you get caught committing a crime, you don't just get to say "sorry, my bad, lemme pay for that/make it better".
It does kinda seem like soda refills can be a grey area. I'm not sure how you could miss posted signs, though, or why staff wouldn't have approached him and warned him about it the first time/s. I've seen lots of people over time who were very blatantly ignoring "no refill" signs, who were obviously just trying to push their luck, hope no one would notice, or hope that the staff would just wanna avoid confrontation.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-19 23:16:25
That's the thing: it's not strictly about the money so much as confronting the crime. The money is the crime, but the reaction is to the action: blatant theft and the habit that informs it. It does not seems like a $525 (or whatever the actual amount was supposed to be) was a deterrent at all. If anything it had the opposite reaction. And now he's trying to get his 15 minutes.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-19 23:20:41
And now he's trying to get his 15 minutes. And you're helping. How does that make you feel?
I'm not being cute, by the way. I often struggle with the problem of acknowledging an attention ***.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-19 23:31:43
And now he's trying to get his 15 minutes. And you're helping. How does that make you feel?
I'm not being cute, by the way. I often struggle with the problem of acknowledging an attention ***. If you thought that was my intention, sorry but you are mistaken.
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By Lakshmi.Inspectorgadget 2014-04-19 23:33:13
Lakshmi.Konvict
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By Lakshmi.Konvict 2014-04-19 23:49:11
Lmao
Fairy.Maimed
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By Fairy.Maimed 2014-04-20 00:05:32
The issue at hand is simple; he stole from a place of business. Now, it's entirely possible that they could have let him go with a warning, or expect him to pay for his drink, or some other slap on the wrist.
His attitude was poor, and I completely understand their reason for making an example of him. If you don't like the punishment or fine, then don't commit the crime.
Idiot.
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By Sylph.Mirvana 2014-04-20 01:20:05
No free refills!?!
But yeah, if the signs were posted within sight, he's either so stupid he didn't see them, or a douchebag for ignoring them. Either way, a reprimand is in order, though I can't say I don't feel $525 + the rest doesn't ride the fence on "excessive."
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-20 06:54:12
Just saw this on Yahoo today, so take it at face value: Quote: High-Fructose Corn Syrup
Behind the label: There's little redeeming nutritional value to HFCS, the ubiquitous sweetener added to everything from bread to salad dressing. It provides empty calories, which promote obesity, it's been linked to heart disease, and the manufacturing process has the potential to contaminate it with brain-damaging mercury (find out the surprising healthy food that mercury could be lurking in). Yet HFCS still shows up in so-called "natural" foods. Back in 2008, the FDA decided that, due to the highly industrialized process used to create HFCS, using the sweetener in products labeled "natural" was deceptive and misleading. But after backlash from the Corn Refiners Association, the agency reversed that decision two months later.
Your move: Few nutritionists out there would agree with the Corn Refiners Association's assertion that HFCS is "natural," but since they don't make the rules, it's up to you to read labels. HFCS is very common in "low-fat" foods, so read ingredient lists. Source
Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2014-04-20 07:08:36
Address that anything lacking the full spectrum of essential vitamins and minerals(read: everything) meets that definition of "obesity-promoting", that they don't seem to understand what constitutes "empty calories", or that "natural" is entirely arbitrary in any nutritional theater
Decisions, decisions
HFCS is two naturally occurring monosaccharides on a hot day that just so happens to be in a lot of ***that made you fat and unhappy. It's probably time to find an obsession that's supported by medical science or entry level biology
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-20 07:30:10
Samuel Clemens was right; It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
I guess that's what you get for letting the flow of money control the studies that support the industry's stance on policy.
Quote: Specifically, they found that when bees are exposed to the enzyme p-coumaric, their immune system appears stronger—it turns on detoxification genes. P-coumaric is found in pollen walls, not nectar, and makes its way into honey inadvertently via sticking to the legs of bees as they visit flowers. Similarly, the team discovered other compounds found in poplar sap that appear to do much the same thing. It all together adds up to a diet that helps bees fight off toxins, the researchers report. Taking away the honey to sell it, and feeding the bees high-fructose corn syrup instead, they claim, compromises their immune systems, making them more vulnerable to the toxins that are meant to kill other bugs. Source
Science
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-20 07:37:01
Address that anything lacking the full spectrum of essential vitamins and minerals(read: everything) meets that definition of "obesity-promoting", that they don't seem to understand what constitutes "empty calories", or that "natural" is entirely arbitrary in any nutritional theater
Decisions, decisions
HFCS is two naturally occurring monosaccharides on a hot day that just so happens to be in a lot of ***that made you fat and unhappy. It's probably time to find an obsession that's supported by medical science or entry level biology The only thing that used to make me unhappy was the flow of 'legal' immigrants taking skilled jobs away from Americans with college degrees. But that is unrelated to this topic much like your insinuations.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-20 07:45:35
Did someone's posts get deleted? How the hell did this shift into bad science and media propaganda about HFCS again?
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-20 07:49:06
The only time you should fight fire with fire is during a "controlled" burn.
EDIT: Source
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-20 07:51:19
Did someone's posts get deleted? How the hell did this shift into bad science and media propaganda about HFCS again? No posts have been deleted.
By Kiroo 2014-04-20 09:48:17
Theft is theft, period. I don't really care how much he was fined, and this isn't a case of a person losing their job because of their opinion/sexual orientation/whatever, this a person that lost their job for committing a crime. Repeatedly. He probably thought the VA cafeteria was an easy mark, like I said, shoplifters aren't first timers. Even if he didn't, he got busted. Too bad.
Easy mark? Dude it was soda from a fountain.... seriously? Any real shoplifter takes items not a soda refill. Is your history perfectly clean? I've never met a person in my life who hasn't tried short-cutting something in their lives, are you perfect to snub others like that?
Personally, I can not remember the last time I ate at a place and they charged for refills, I'm not gonna look for signs either. That could have easily been me. Let me help ya a lil with info. A soda bag can cost 15-25 dollars a bag depending on size and can easily push out 200 cups of soda.... (at avg, 2 bucks for soda, do the math)who's feeling sorry for the hospital? Not me. Let the guy pay and call it done, he admitted he'd done it before at the same token he had paid for a meal which let's face it, they made their money on that food and I dun have to be there to see the pricing.
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By Yuukari 2014-04-20 09:52:34
Theft is theft, period. I don't really care how much he was fined, and this isn't a case of a person losing their job because of their opinion/sexual orientation/whatever, this a person that lost their job for committing a crime. Repeatedly. He probably thought the VA cafeteria was an easy mark, like I said, shoplifters aren't first timers. Even if he didn't, he got busted. Too bad.
Easy mark? Dude it was soda from a fountain.... seriously? Any real shoplifter takes items not a soda refill. Is your history perfectly clean? I've never met a person in my life who hasn't tried short-cutting something in their lives, are you perfect to snub others like that?
Personally, I can not remember the last time I ate at a place and they charged for refills, I'm not gonna look for signs either. That could have easily been me. Let me help ya a lil with info. A soda bag can cost 15-25 dollars a bag depending on size and can easily push out 200 cups of soda.... (at avg, 2 bucks for soda, do the math)who's feeling sorry for the hospital? Not me. Let the guy pay and call it done, he admitted he'd done it before at the same token he had paid for a meal which let's face it, they made their money on that food and I dun have to be there to see the pricing.
If there are signs that say "Don't do it" and he didn't listen, then that's -his- damn fault and punishment -while a tad extreme in this particular case- is appropriate if they don't want to obey the rules in front of their damn face.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-20 09:58:47
Let me help ya a lil with info. A soda bag can cost 15-25 dollars a bag depending on size and can easily push out 200 cups of soda.... (at avg, 2 bucks for soda, do the math)who's feeling sorry for the hospital? "It's not really stealing if I'm taking one of the few products that keeps their business afloat."
Wait...
By Jetackuu 2014-04-20 11:31:50
When it comes to fines for theft it really should at most be a reimbursement of 2x what was taken. 525$ for an 85cent refill or even in the case of pirating music 250k for a 10$ album is a bit absurd. difference is, nothing is left void when a cd is copied, unlike when he's taking mix/carbonated water from the place, but that detracts from your valid point, nonetheless, so I'll stop.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2014-04-20 11:35:36
It costs restaurants less than a quarter to produce a glass soda via the fountain machines. It's the cheapest thing on the menu to produce.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-20 11:36:25
Theft is theft, period. I don't really care how much he was fined, and this isn't a case of a person losing their job because of their opinion/sexual orientation/whatever, this a person that lost their job for committing a crime. Repeatedly. He probably thought the VA cafeteria was an easy mark, like I said, shoplifters aren't first timers. Even if he didn't, he got busted. Too bad.
Easy mark? Dude it was soda from a fountain.... seriously? Any real shoplifter takes items not a soda refill. Is your history perfectly clean? I've never met a person in my life who hasn't tried short-cutting something in their lives, are you perfect to snub others like that?
Personally, I can not remember the last time I ate at a place and they charged for refills, I'm not gonna look for signs either. That could have easily been me. Let me help ya a lil with info. A soda bag can cost 15-25 dollars a bag depending on size and can easily push out 200 cups of soda.... (at avg, 2 bucks for soda, do the math)who's feeling sorry for the hospital? Not me. Let the guy pay and call it done, he admitted he'd done it before at the same token he had paid for a meal which let's face it, they made their money on that food and I dun have to be there to see the pricing.
I've never stolen anything. Your info provided nothing we didn't know and it's irrelevant. Theft is theft.
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Here's an interesting story I picked up on today: Quote: On Wednesday construction worker Christopher Lewis went to refill his cup at the soda machine in the cafeteria at the Ralph H. Johnson VA Medical Center. Next thing he knew, Federal Police Force officers were slapping him with a $525 federal citation for shoplifting.
Seems harmless enough, but here's what what the hospital had to say: Quote: In a statement, the hospital said Lewis told “VA police he had not paid for refills of beverages on multiple occasions, even though signs are posted in the cafeteria informing patrons refills are not free. Shoplifting is a crime.”
According to police: Quote: After police approached him, Lewis tried to pay the cost of the refill, but his money was refused. Instead, he was given the shoplifting ticket. A hospital administrator even called what Lewis did theft of government property.
So is this a case of blatant disregard for the rule law on Lewis's part? Or were both the VA and the police overrating?
It's one man's word against a lot of others and ultimately this is how the story ends:
Quote: After a local backlash, on Thursday afternoon the hospital’s officials backed down and let Lewis off with a warning. But this small-change mistake has still cost the man his job. Lewis is no longer allowed on the hospital’s premises.
Should he have been fired as well?
Ultimately though the moral of the story is:
Quote: In a perfect world, Lewis would voluntarily just say no to sugar-laden refills. And yes, following rules is important too. But given the serious health challenges our veterans face and how difficult it is for them to get care once they’ve returned home, you’d think VA hospitals would adjust their priorities. Ticketing a guy who made an innocent mistake isn’t where we need to focus federal resources.
Thoughts?
Source
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