School Bans On Chocolate Milk May Backfire

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School Bans on Chocolate Milk May Backfire
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-04-18 11:27:29
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Comparing a drink which is supposed to be considered a meal with soda doesn't really translate.
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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-04-18 11:28:49
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Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
Comparing a drink which is supposed to be considered a meal with soda doesn't really translate.

Yeah; I kicked that in on the edit. I hadn't considered that possibility. But really. Even though I've been known to do it from time to time, having a smoothie along WITH a meal is...not as unhealthy as a milkshake, but it's along the same lines.
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By fonewear 2014-04-18 11:34:55
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A meal umm anything with calories ? Anything that gives you energy.
 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-18 17:51:49
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Edit: your links are good for calories and nutrients but include nothing about ingredients; preservatives, type of sugars (obviously in the smoothie it's naturally-ocurring in the fruit vs. HFCS), etc.
I am dying on the floor right now.

Fruit is full of fructose. It's FRUCTOSE, ***. In fact, it has MORE fructose than high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS is only like 55% fructose -- table sugar is 50% fructose).
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-04-18 18:05:44
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You can almost spell the word fruit with fructose, I believe they have a relation in some capacity of a derivative.
 Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-04-18 19:22:20
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Incoming Anecdote:

When I was in my last year of high school, I ended up weighing out at 425lbs. That alone, is an unhealthy weight if you do not consider the lifestyle or eating habits, and only use the weight as an assumption - granted, I was still overweight. The second heaviest person in my school that final year, was 238lbs. I was smaller in size than he was all around.

During my time in high school, from beginning to end, to be considered physically fit, boys had to be able to lift their own body weight (which on average was a bench press test of 130-150lbs), and leg press twice their weight for a complete set (which is 10 repetitions). In my first year of high school, I was 320lbs, and able to bench press around 220lbs at best. But I've also been lifting weights as early as grade 7 with a strong intake of protein from protein rich foods such as milk (after-workout drink to help build broken down tissue), water for hydration purposes, and high fiber foods etc.

By the end of Grade 12, I was consistently lifting the maximum amount of free weights that could fit on the leg press - which was just about 2,000lbs with relative ease - and most of my weight was centered primarily in my legs. I also wore heavy pants, and foot wear (because regular shoes wore out too fast, and I came from a poor family, and hiking boots/work boots were more cost-effective, and lasted years versus months for a similar price)

The milk served in Canadian schools, so far as I know, are Homogenized Milk (whole milk), 2% and 3% white and chocolate milk, as well as various heavily carbonated drinks loaded with more sugar than a sugar cane is capable of producing. I was also on the football team, so I had plenty of exercise all day - Worked in the cafeteria as the breakfast server, had culinary classes all morning, worked the cafeteria at lunch, when there weren't any lunchtime football meetings, had gym class in the afternoon (during grade 10, dropped it after that), and had afterschool practice/workouts moving the single and 5 man-tackling dummy. The tackling Dummy represented a single player of at least 180lbs (since the smaller players had to muster enough force to counter a larger tackle/guard) and the 5 man represented 5 players, of 200lbs each.

It's been about 9 1/2 years since then, and now I'm down to 270lbs - which is still roughly 50lbs overweight for someone my size and stature.
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-19 08:18:39
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Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
Incoming Anecdote:

When I was in my last year of high school, I ended up weighing out at 425lbs. That alone, is an unhealthy weight if you do not consider the lifestyle or eating habits, and only use the weight as an assumption - granted, I was still overweight. The second heaviest person in my school that final year, was 238lbs. I was smaller in size than he was all around.

During my time in high school, from beginning to end, to be considered physically fit, boys had to be able to lift their own body weight (which on average was a bench press test of 130-150lbs), and leg press twice their weight for a complete set (which is 10 repetitions). In my first year of high school, I was 320lbs, and able to bench press around 220lbs at best. But I've also been lifting weights as early as grade 7 with a strong intake of protein from protein rich foods such as milk (after-workout drink to help build broken down tissue), water for hydration purposes, and high fiber foods etc.

By the end of Grade 12, I was consistently lifting the maximum amount of free weights that could fit on the leg press - which was just about 2,000lbs with relative ease - and most of my weight was centered primarily in my legs. I also wore heavy pants, and foot wear (because regular shoes wore out too fast, and I came from a poor family, and hiking boots/work boots were more cost-effective, and lasted years versus months for a similar price)

The milk served in Canadian schools, so far as I know, are Homogenized Milk (whole milk), 2% and 3% white and chocolate milk, as well as various heavily carbonated drinks loaded with more sugar than a sugar cane is capable of producing. I was also on the football team, so I had plenty of exercise all day - Worked in the cafeteria as the breakfast server, had culinary classes all morning, worked the cafeteria at lunch, when there weren't any lunchtime football meetings, had gym class in the afternoon (during grade 10, dropped it after that), and had afterschool practice/workouts moving the single and 5 man-tackling dummy. The tackling Dummy represented a single player of at least 180lbs (since the smaller players had to muster enough force to counter a larger tackle/guard) and the 5 man represented 5 players, of 200lbs each.

It's been about 9 1/2 years since then, and now I'm down to 270lbs - which is still roughly 50lbs overweight for someone my size and stature.

so your anecdote is, drink milk and you can lift a Ton?
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By Leviathan.Kincard 2014-04-19 08:46:35
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goddamn all you people talking about HFCS like its worse than drinking fruit juice or sports drinks are giving me a seizure

damn you lustig, damn you to hell
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-04-19 08:47:07
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Edit: your links are good for calories and nutrients but include nothing about ingredients; preservatives, type of sugars (obviously in the smoothie it's naturally-ocurring in the fruit vs. HFCS), etc.
I am dying on the floor right now.

Fruit is full of fructose. It's FRUCTOSE, ***. In fact, it has MORE fructose than high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS is only like 55% fructose -- table sugar is 50% fructose).

Worded poorly. Never mind.

My point was, processed vs. not. I'm well aware of what Fructose is.

Edit: also, amount of fructose naturally occurring in fruit vs. concentrated in HFCS, additional nutrients/fiber in fruit, etc. Yes, percentage-wise fruit has more fructose, but (random numbers) 100% of 5 is still smaller than 50% of 20.

I'm not saying HFCS is any worse than table sugar. What I'm saying is there are a lot of reasons fruit is still significantly better for people calorie-for-calorie compared to more-processed foods.

Unless I'm entirely misunderstanding the facts I've read on the subject, which I will not discount. I am not myself a scientist or nutritional guru. Learning as I go here, sorry if I'm wrong.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-19 09:15:27
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How much difference does processing make to sugar? Table sugar is literally one of the purest substances commercially available. Corn syrup has more problems, but are those impurities any different than the strawberries in your smoothie having absorbed a microscopic quantity of mercury from rainfall?

People throw around words like "healthy" and "natural" as though they mean anything. Bowel cancer and arsenic are natural, saturated fat and fructose are healthy. Some complain about processing, but the only people who can say that to me and retain any respect are those who grow and mill their own wheat, who curdle their own cheese and yogurt, etc.

I do as much of my cooking from scratch, I've a friend who cultures his own yogurt, so it's hardly like I live day-to-day on Hungry Man "dinners," but the feel-good non-science makes my head hurt. If you're buying "organic" from "Tyson Chicken," do you think you're doing yourself any "good"? The answer is emphatically yes, but no more good than just buying the normal offering. Actually, I could argue about how organic is terrible on multiple levels, but rant for another day.

Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
I'm not saying HFCS is any worse than table sugar. What I'm saying is there are a lot of reasons fruit is still significantly better for people calorie-for-calorie compared to more-processed foods.
Fiber is the biggest one that come to mind. There are some trace vitamins and minerals (especially in blue fruits and berries), but it's not nearly as effecting as the sugar content.
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-04-19 09:21:54
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
How much difference does processing make to sugar? Table sugar is literally one of the purest substances commercially available. Corn syrup has more problems, but are those impurities any different than the strawberries in your smoothie having absorbed a microscopic quantity of mercury from rainfall?

People throw around words like "healthy" and "natural" as though they mean anything. Bowel cancer and arsenic are natural, saturated fat and fructose are healthy. Some complain about processing, but the only people who can say that to me and retain any respect are those who grow and mill their own wheat, who curdle their own cheese and yogurt, etc.

I do as much of my cooking from scratch, I've a friend who cultures his own yogurt, so it's hardly like I live day-to-day on Hungry Man "dinners," but the feel-good non-science makes my head hurt. If you're buying "organic" from "Tyson Chicken," do you think you're doing yourself any "good"? The answer is emphatically yes, but no more good than just buying the normal offering. Actually, I could argue about how organic is terrible on multiple levels, but rant for another day.

Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
I'm not saying HFCS is any worse than table sugar. What I'm saying is there are a lot of reasons fruit is still significantly better for people calorie-for-calorie compared to more-processed foods.
Fiber is the biggest one that come to mind. There are some trace vitamins and minerals (especially in blue fruits and berries), but it's not nearly as effecting as the sugar content.

I hate the word "organic" anyhow, because it doesn't mean anything close to what it's used for in nutritional respects. Damn near everything is organic, ffs. I'm really not a new-age health food person. Promise. Just a guy trying to separate fact from fiction from fear mongering to live healthier.

I did add another edit after you quoted. Like I said; not saying I have all the answers or I'm right on everything, but I still feel like I'm not wrong in saying that fruit products and we'll say "minimally" processed things (frozen fruit + milk, for instance) are going to soundly defeat a Coke and a Twinkie from a healthy diet perspective. Even if the calorie count comes out the same.

HFCS isn't the devil people make it out to be on its own, but its application by food companies leave something to be desired (edit: especially in the products they label as "healthy," such as various flavored waters, etc.)
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-04-19 11:04:20
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Quote:
I'm not saying HFCS is any worse than table sugar. What I'm saying is there are a lot of reasons fruit is still significantly better for people calorie-for-calorie compared to more-processed foods.

Calorie for calorie it's no different then any of the other carbohydrates with the sole exception of glucose. The only difference between HFCS and the other sugars is that HFCS has a sweeter taste per miligram of it used. Companies can add smaller amounts of it to reach the same sweetness as table sugar (sucrose). It's cheaper, plain and simple.

There is no getting around evolution here. We evolved to have a predisposition for sugar addiction because in the jungles and plains of ancient Africa, sugar is quite hard to come by on a regular basis. The sweetness is a good indicator of the amount of sugar present and so we all like eating sweet tasting food. And like most addictions you can build up a tolerance and require more and more to get the same dopamine hit. That is why all "healthy" and "organic" marketing crap will fail without adding that secret ingredient that attracts homo sapiens. You could make food without any kind of added sugar but most people would pass it over for the big sugar loaded item next to it in the grocery isle.

As for why America is so "fat", combination of things. First is the removal of social pressure against overindulgence. Second is that food is fairly cheap and plentiful. People still go without, I know I did, yet most Americans can easily afford to overindulge. Last is a lack of knowledge about what your own body wants to do, primary through the spread of the PC police. Put those together and you have a population with zero incentive to not fall prey to those ancient instincts, they don't even know that they exist or their purpose (store energy for long term famine).
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 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-04-19 11:41:02
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They just need to stick to this new no chocolate milk thing until the current generation of kids in school move on and the newer generation will drink plain milk without issues of being previously spoiled on sweets. As a society we need to stop letting kids dictate to adults and adults need to stick to their decisions rather than allowing compromise which gives kids power over things they do not understand and in the end results in back-talking brats with false and unrealistic senses of entitlement.
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-04-19 11:48:42
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When I was in school the chocolate milk was usually the only part of my lunch I actually consumed. If I had been given something that was healthy I would have most likely eaten that instead, but since I was given the choice between food and sweets I naturally picked having sweets and in the end I learned nothing about nutrition and only reinforced my bad eating habits.
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-19 13:04:15
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Valefor.Endoq said: »
They just need to stick to this new no chocolate milk thing until the current generation of kids in school move on and the newer generation will drink plain milk without issues of being previously spoiled on sweets. As a society we need to stop letting kids dictate to adults and adults need to stick to their decisions rather than allowing compromise which gives kids power over things they do not understand and in the end results in back-talking brats with false and unrealistic senses of entitlement.
Valefor.Endoq said: »
When I was in school the chocolate milk was usually the only part of my lunch I actually consumed. If I had been given something that was healthy I would have most likely eaten that instead, but since I was given the choice between food and sweets I naturally picked having sweets and in the end I learned nothing about nutrition and only reinforced my bad eating habits.

From what I am reading here given the choice you would jump off a cliff, and blame someone else.
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 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-04-19 13:08:34
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Altimaomega said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »
They just need to stick to this new no chocolate milk thing until the current generation of kids in school move on and the newer generation will drink plain milk without issues of being previously spoiled on sweets. As a society we need to stop letting kids dictate to adults and adults need to stick to their decisions rather than allowing compromise which gives kids power over things they do not understand and in the end results in back-talking brats with false and unrealistic senses of entitlement.
Valefor.Endoq said: »
When I was in school the chocolate milk was usually the only part of my lunch I actually consumed. If I had been given something that was healthy I would have most likely eaten that instead, but since I was given the choice between food and sweets I naturally picked having sweets and in the end I learned nothing about nutrition and only reinforced my bad eating habits.

From what I am reading here given the choice you would jump off a cliff, and blame someone else.
It isn't often I agree with Altimaomega, but yes, this.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-19 13:19:46
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Altimaomega said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »
They just need to stick to this new no chocolate milk thing until the current generation of kids in school move on and the newer generation will drink plain milk without issues of being previously spoiled on sweets. As a society we need to stop letting kids dictate to adults and adults need to stick to their decisions rather than allowing compromise which gives kids power over things they do not understand and in the end results in back-talking brats with false and unrealistic senses of entitlement.
Valefor.Endoq said: »
When I was in school the chocolate milk was usually the only part of my lunch I actually consumed. If I had been given something that was healthy I would have most likely eaten that instead, but since I was given the choice between food and sweets I naturally picked having sweets and in the end I learned nothing about nutrition and only reinforced my bad eating habits.
From what I am reading here given the choice you would jump off a cliff, and blame someone else.
 Asura.Natenn
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By Asura.Natenn 2014-04-19 15:08:11
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By Yuukari 2014-04-19 16:00:19
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GIMME BACK MY CHOCOLATE MILK YOU SON OF A ***
 
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 Bahamut.Baconwrap
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2014-04-19 17:09:59
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eslim said: »
not serving chocolate milk in schools will help black cow oppression.

SouthPark Cow Cult comes to mind!

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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-19 17:42:06
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You guys are now reminding me of the tired jokes my dad told me as a kid about which cow produced flavored versus regular milk.
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-04-19 19:10:40
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Altimaomega said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »
They just need to stick to this new no chocolate milk thing until the current generation of kids in school move on and the newer generation will drink plain milk without issues of being previously spoiled on sweets. As a society we need to stop letting kids dictate to adults and adults need to stick to their decisions rather than allowing compromise which gives kids power over things they do not understand and in the end results in back-talking brats with false and unrealistic senses of entitlement.
Valefor.Endoq said: »
When I was in school the chocolate milk was usually the only part of my lunch I actually consumed. If I had been given something that was healthy I would have most likely eaten that instead, but since I was given the choice between food and sweets I naturally picked having sweets and in the end I learned nothing about nutrition and only reinforced my bad eating habits.

From what I am reading here given the choice you would jump off a cliff, and blame someone else.
I don't understand anything you just said...
 Bismarck.Magnuss
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By Bismarck.Magnuss 2014-04-19 19:12:01
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Valefor.Endoq said: »
I don't understand anything you just said...
He said that if you had one ice cream cone and he had one ice cream cone, you would take his ice cream cone so that way you could have two ice cream cones.
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-04-19 19:13:52
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Bismarck.Magnuss said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »
I don't understand anything you just said...
He said that if you had one ice cream cone and he had one ice cream cone, you would take his ice cream cone so that way you could have two ice cream cones.
Wow that is not even close to what I was saying before haha
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-04-19 19:16:28
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Why not take a different angle on the chocolate milk issue and make it so only students with a chocolate milk card can get chocolate milk with their lunches and you have to get good grades to get/keep those cards.
If you want sweets for lunch then prove to us that you can still function in class on your sugar buzz.
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-19 19:16:40
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Valefor.Endoq said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »
They just need to stick to this new no chocolate milk thing until the current generation of kids in school move on and the newer generation will drink plain milk without issues of being previously spoiled on sweets. As a society we need to stop letting kids dictate to adults and adults need to stick to their decisions rather than allowing compromise which gives kids power over things they do not understand and in the end results in back-talking brats with false and unrealistic senses of entitlement.
Valefor.Endoq said: »
When I was in school the chocolate milk was usually the only part of my lunch I actually consumed. If I had been given something that was healthy I would have most likely eaten that instead, but since I was given the choice between food and sweets I naturally picked having sweets and in the end I learned nothing about nutrition and only reinforced my bad eating habits.

From what I am reading here given the choice you would jump off a cliff, and blame someone else.
I don't understand anything you just said...

You can't fix stupid.
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-19 19:17:44
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Valefor.Endoq said: »
Why not take a different angle on the chocolate milk issue and make it so only students with a chocolate milk card can get chocolate milk with their lunches and you have to get good grades to get/keep those cards.
If you want sweets for lunch then prove to us that you can still function in class on your sugar buzz.

Chocolate milk is not a sweet ffs.
 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-04-19 19:20:51
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Altimaomega said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »
Why not take a different angle on the chocolate milk issue and make it so only students with a chocolate milk card can get chocolate milk with their lunches and you have to get good grades to get/keep those cards.
If you want sweets for lunch then prove to us that you can still function in class on your sugar buzz.

Chocolate milk is not a sweet ffs.
Plain milk has a lot of natural occurring sugar in it and then they add a lot more sugar into chocolate milk which has about 24 grams of sugar that is the same as 24 sugar cubes.
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By Bismarck.Magnuss 2014-04-19 19:21:12
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It's kind of a bad idea to use food as an incentive, especially if the food is a bit on the sugary side.
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