New High Level Battlefield Wins?

Thank to you.
Now stfu and mind your own life.

I was referring to melee DDs in that instance, which the majority of the AA fights I have done the DDs don't get. And I have won the majority of the time as well with out them using scherzo.


I'm going to have to disagree with you. I have done AA with some pretty bad whms and have had to pretty much heal myself the majority of the time. If a pld can get a cure4 off before a whm there is something wrong.

I understand what you're saying about setup but the gear of the ppl that you are bringing to D/DV matters plain and simply. If ppl don't use pdt sets/high acc sets then your just not going to do enough dmg.

I like to think that skill isn't just about WS macroing lol but more about reacting to battle situations. Sometimes in the flow of the battle things just don't go according to plan even in the easy sauce set up of pld rng rng rng brd whm, a rng ws when decoy shot isn't up for example and pulling hate. I know you were just giving examples albeit a little too general.

It seems like this discussion has devolved a little, I can wholeheartedly agree that right now in the game if your going to use a pld for security sake or whatever that using rngs as DDs makes the most sense. The great thing about the game is that there are so many jobs and just because the pld rng whm brd setup is probably the most efficient doesn't make it the most fun. Sometimes a little chaos in the heat of the fight is fun and exciting. Its risker to take melee DDs in these fights but at the same time its a lot more fun and when you finally do get the win its a little bit more rewarding.

None of your response actually addressed my point. Which is that having better players doesn't somehow make pld+melee any more efficient, the issue is with the enmity system.

Simply adjusting down the rate at which damage and certain actions gain VE and CE isn't really going to solve anything either. You'll either cap or you won't. If your DDs can't maintain net VE/CE gain then you'll be forced to bring a pld and it will never look at the DDs, which isn't any better than what we have currently.

I don't use pld for security sake, I use it when I play with rngs because it makes sense. I only use rng when standard melee setups don't work, which they do not on VD AA (or at a minimum they aren't at all practical). Nin (and by extension a thf when paired with it) is the only melee that can truely be effective in VD AAs (ignoring GK and TT).

NB: I do not use melees with pld, because it makes no sense and will not result in more rewarding experiences, just messier ones.

"Simply adjusting down the rate at which damage and certain actions gain VE and CE isn't really going to solve anything either".

there you go making a very general statement, have you even attempted to try to do a VD with melees with them using the new JS wpns and more then usual -enmity gear on. Now for the record I haven't either but I'm at least open to the idea of doing it. I never said using melee+pld was more efficient only that is was possible lol.

I have to think that this is where the game is going in that the devs want melee DDs to think about -enmity gear in their sets and really if they don't use it they can continue to complain about how they are not being used in VD content.(I know there are DDs that aren't complaining because they can do VD content, please excuse my stereotype of DDs that I have talked to).

They also have adjust the rate at which you loose enmity from dmg with -enmity gear. This is why I suggested in an earlier post that they devs provide a enmity gauge so that you can adjust accordingly. I also agreed that the cap be raised too. I would say at least to 20000 for both CE/VE. There is no denying that eventually in every battle situation that DDs will reach enmity cap but important to note is the rate at which that cap is maintained and how much enmity is being lost when a DD does pull hate and gets hit. Another factor they can adjust and should adjust is really that for the amount of dmg you do there is a rate of about 30% of it is turned in to CE/VE I would suggest that while this is acceptable the ratio between the two should be adjust further in to a 2:1 ratio of VE/CE. VE being easier to cap because very few DD JAs generate CE. A pld can cap CE/VE very easily with /blu. This will allow situations where yes the DD might be capped VE wise they will still need to cap CE. I think expecting the Devs to create adjustments to enmity that make it a pld wont ever lose hate is impractical. what I was trying to do is simply suggest a theoretical set that would allow a pld to lock CE enmity which if the DDs were using -enmity gear would allow the pld to hold longer and be able to regain quicker. And yes even in this theoretical set the pld will still loose hate from examples that I have previously given. Only difference is it "might" prevent the spinning top situation.

Seriously though sometimes its not about the most practical setup especially if you playing with friends lol. If you can get the win with everyone in the group playing jobs they like to play I don't know the definition of a more rewarding experience but that's just my opinion.

TLDR: give the new gear a chance it may surprise you.

It's like everyone forgot we used to /nin on old content because of how F****D the hate system was.

if my memory serves, loosing shadows and gaining Debuffs (From the target) Reduces your emnity. SO a DD geting hit with utsu up would lose emnity, not die and allow the PLD to pull hate back.

/nin allows you to swap hate but a PLD lets you do this without you being the main focus for a few seconds.

Having content where we need to /nin again only seems a plus to me because anything that helps teach people hate control is always a +

I remember the days when DDs just used opo necklace + sleeping potions to get TP, get invite to party, WS, get out!

Great example of how DDs loose enmity from other sources, so it isn't as simple as just zerging and gaining enmity all the time you are going to be loosing enmity too from non dmg sources. and in this situation with shadows up the DD can afford to take hate for that brief amount of time albeit if only for an attack round before getting smacked but that's enough time usually for the pld to reclaim. The NM usually have some kind of AOE that they do that wipes shadows so there are lots of sources of indirect dmg shedding of enmity that is going on in these fights that we haven't even mentioned as well with -enmity gear on the amount of enmity lost would only be increased in a good way only if you were taking dmg though.

The debuffs don't actually have to land. Just having them used on you will incur the CE loss(Even if a shadow takes the enfeeble.) Btw, as far as I know, this applies only to direct enfeebling actions. WS with debuffing add effects should just be simple dmg taken CE loss.

The values are:

-25 CE per shadow lost.
-80 CE for being enfeebled.

So, having silence cast on you would and catching it with a shadow would reduce your CE by 105

Was mainly meaning that spamming Poison or Venom pots doesn't count as it's self inflicted but the issue is and has always been hate is "Managed" whichs means you deal with ***and adjust accordingly, its never been PLD stands there mob never moves.

Yes, he's basically AA Galka with Trust BLM NPCs. All his attacks are single target, except his Sailor Moon attack that's aoe magic damage.

Hello,

has anyone attempted Ouryu on D or VD yet?
and is it confirmed that blue procing the Elementals will simply force him to land... >_> or does it actually reduce his DT in any manner?

Thank you for any feedback.

Been running a static on Tenzen, gone 6/6 Normal so far with 2x MNK/NIN, 1x THF/DNC (Me), 1 SCH/RDM, 1 BRD/BLM and 1 COR/Whatever. Our strat works rather well. after SCH uses embrava, the COR uses Chaos/Hunter, the Bard uses 1 March, 1 Madrigal, 2 Minuet, then Elemental Seal + Horde Lullaby 2 on the Tarutarus, then we zerg Tenzen. I usually use Larceny at 25% to steal Tenzen's invincibility to speed up the fight. So far the Tarutarus have only woken up twice, and neither time for more than 2-3 seconds before Tenzen goes down. So far we've gotten one each of the new RNG/SAM bow, the mage shoes, the mage necklace and the DD ammo piece (Which is the only thing I've gotten so far).