New High Level Battlefield Wins?

just beat Tenzen on normal fight was a joke, didn't even really try and had np, gonna try Difficult now. Unfortunately AH wont let me post SS, but we got acc attack stp ammo.

What strategy did you use?
Party setup?
I DON'T UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!

This was our win and drops. was first clear on Valefore and the time was just over 11 minutes. Doing this since Matty can't upload anything.

Looks like Pld, supportx2, rngx3

We just tried same setup on Difficult, had an issue with a d/c when he was at 41% and we wiped shortly after, he gains a strong -dt as the fight goes on (tried finale to no avail to relieve -dt), this carried through even after we wiped and retried, he had huge dt to start. Fight might be a zerg fight. Seemingly only a few AoE moves, Cosmic Elucidation (which does not kill entire party instantly), perhaps rangers are not the best thing for this fight if the paladin can hold competitive hate?

Did they ever get around to revamping the hate mechanics of FFXI or is there now some way to where PLDs can legitimately hold hate and tank as intended?

Not blasting anyone or anything, just curious is all due to the enmity system making people say lolPLD no, NIN/WAR/MNK/anything else tanks, PLD grows dust.

For a bit now Pld has been the only real tank for high tier content, so much so that the dev's are discussing new ways of making rune fencer just as formidable versus physical damage enemies as they are magic, in order to cope with being completely ousted by Pld's.

Oh cool, I suppose the new gear with enmity+ and shield skill on it has helped, and most PLDs I've seen have been running around with either 90Ochain or 95/99Aegis, and seen several burts and excals as well. I'm an aby gen player, so hence my ignorance.

Now where's my three lines of buffs at........

you lines of buffs are not with abby gear? lol

pld can only tanks with rng DDs, it has nothing to do with enmity gear.

They did tweak the enmity stuff, but how effective it was I have no clue.

High end content setup atm looks like this(roughly): you either take a pld with rngs, who can hold hate pre-tweak due to decoy shots anyway, or you take melees without a pld.

The enmity was adjusted so that 1. The hate gain rate is slower (prob to prevent dds to cap too fast the hate), 2. The enmity gear is just related to hate loss rate. All dmg reduce the cumulative hate, but the enmity+ Will have a reduction factor (prob based on a standart hate loss rate) while enmity- will have a amplification.

If the enmity- or + dont affect the hate generation, this is clearly a measure to prevent massive rng spam tactics. Also, its unefective wearing enmity- in tp/ws sets, as they no longer amplify/reduce the hate generation. Instead, enmity gear just make sense to use in -dt sets.

This benefits melee strats, but just if the dds uses dt sets with enmity-. This way, in a zerg situation, just will take a few hits to pld regain the hate from nm. So, the new jse would allow pld a better hate control, but that also implies that dds will be forced to use enmity gear. But enmity- in weapon is cruel, as you wont swap this like armor pieces, so dds will be limited to a single kind of weapon if they decide to go to melee zerg strat.

I'm not sure you understand how enmity works. A fully buffed melee is still going to be capping and pulling hate consistently with and without this -10 enmity. The difference will be you end up taking a few extra seconds to cap, you'll still end up recapping pretty much every WS and most tp rounds.

Even losing an extra 10% enmity from being hit won't have any real world bearing on this.

Its not like i dont undestand hate (and i dont fully understand, just started payiing attention to this after playing as pld), its more like your mindless zerg dds know ***about this. If they know they will hit cap faster, why do they engage at start, with everyone with zero hate? Why do they go all out, if they know they will pull the hate from pld?

If your dds wants to go zerg, they should just wait till pld get enough hate so its safe to engage. And if they get too much hate, just turn and wait pld regain control. How much is necessary, thats another problem, that pld dont have enough tools to generate hate.

If you cant have this kind of control, you better stick with decoy shot anyway. Or sneak attack.

Demonstrating a clear lack of understanding. "Control" in this case is dealing less damage which isn't skill or knowledge, its just disengaging or turning.

The issue is that the enmity system wasn't designed to scale to where the game is now, its got nothing to do with mindless DDs.

You say the others dont undestand something, and then clearly states that your dds cant deal with this because they are "oh, soooo strong!" and blame the system/game because your dds dont have the competence to deal with this without a ja.

Please, tell me more of this.

hate caps, it's not a matter of managing anything, you'll cap CE before the mob dies no matter what if it stays on the PLD..

rng or accept that your DD will be tanking on any typical endgame mob, that simple

Pretty soon it might be possible for pld to cap both pdt haste and +enmity depending on the amount of enmity that they add to the creed set, so tanking with melee DDs might become a viable option with only the momentary loss in hate due to them capping VE off a ws.

The -enmity that they added increases the reduction in enmity loss that DDs will take when the do reach cap. All the pld will have to do however is a timely flash and they should be able to regain hate no problem.

This situation does hinge on DDs being able to take the occasionally spike in dmg or setting up situations where if the know they are going to zerg aka hundred fist to have pld preemptive cover.

While it does make sense to add in -enmity gear in the pdt gear this has a double edged sword effect. Where DDs will only want enough dt gear to with stand the initial attack anymore dt could be counter productive to the enmity you are trying to shed because you are taking less dmg.

Its possible to cap pdt/mdt/enmity/haste with reforged af1,2 +1 and...burtgang.

Yes I know it kinda makes the point moot in the sense that the ability to lock CE is really dependant on whether a pld has burtgang or not. I was actually going to add that to my comment after I thought about it.

In situations where the pld doesn't have burtgang timing a high enmity/pdt set between periods when sentinel and palisade can have the same effect. To reclaim hate you'll likely have to use a flash and a blue spell or two to recover the amount of VE/CE. You can still reach a respectable level of enmity on gear without burtgang, not having burtgang makes you more dependant on JA/MAs.

This is really all theorycraft anyway because we really have no idea the multiplier that the +enmity gear provides and if it stacks with the reduces enmity loss from dmg effect from gear.

Ouryu <Looking For Members> PLD Aegis, Ochain, Burtgang, Excalibur, 119 Relic ONRY!

We cleared Ouryu on Normal with PLD RNGx2 BLM WHM BRD and Tenzen on Normal with SAM SAM WAR WAR BRD WHM.

Interesting setup. Can you elaborate a little? Were the DDs "above average" or just OK DDs? Sub used? (assuming it was /nin for tenzen). What are his tp moves additional effects, if any were noticed? Hate reset? Straight zerg? anything to be cautious about?

Might do the fight just for the fact of the matter.

Burtgang and PLDs other equipment with enmity related stuff on it doesn't change the fact that DDs will be constantly recapping hate. All gear like burtgang does is reduce the amount your enmity can be reduced by, it doesn't make any difference to DDs that are capping their own enmity.

Until they fundamentally change how enmity works and the current caps, DDs are always going to tank in any situation they are present in. Even if they gave you weapons with -50 enmity (the -enmity cap) a good DD with proper buffs will still cap and constantly recap hate.

Why don't they just allow people to surpass the cap but then have it so enmity degrades rapidly above the cap so PLD with various enmity+ gear will maintain hate a lot easier than DDs.

Because that would likely require a complete overhaul of the enmity system, not everything is just a simple case of adding more 0s or changing the position of a decimal point.

For Ouryu:

It was more or less 2005 all over again with the exception of the AI being a little different now. His TP/AOE moves are standard here from the original classic COP BC; however, there seemed to be an automatic hate reset the moment he lands (he seemed to immediately go after either the RNG's or the BLM at this point), so the PLD had to get hate back asap. I was on WHM focusing on keeping everyone healed, so I might need a second confirmation on the hate reset mechanics.

Since positioning now is different than how we used to do the BC back in the day, you have to be careful with Spike Flail. There were at least 2 instances where our PLD got hate back from the RNGs/BLM from behind Ouryu, so I got nervous when that happened.

Position your RNG's and Mages off far to the side of Ouryu. 1 of our RNGs took semi-heavy conal damage from Geotic Breath due to being too close to his front, so watch out for that.

AOE's like Typhoon Wing and Bai Wing still hurt and still cause annoying status effects, so hopefully your WHM has HQ barstonra and shellra V. This will become even more important on Difficult and VD modes.

Elementals spawn when Ouryu is in the air (I don't remember seeing worms). I think there's some info posted now about proc'ing the elementals which can possibly affect the duration that Ouryu remains in the air, but to be honest, I wasn't paying attention to how we handled them. We either slept them or our BLM nuked them, so I'll get clarification on that later.

For Tenzen:

We decided before going in that we would try a zerg option. I had all relic and mythic SAMs and WARs so perhaps my setup may not be indicative of your standard party across the board (or maybe it is?).

When you spawn in, don't move forward until you're ready or you'll inadvertently trigger aggro on Tenzen. The 3 Taru's are behind you up above on a higher deck, but they share aggro with whoever initially gets hate.

The DD's pulled Tenzen to the far NE corner of the deck and the WHM (myself) and the BRD stayed back at the starting point. Cherukiki spammed Paralyga and Diaga III the entire fight -_- and her paralyze is potent, so it'll need to be removed asap.

At some point, Kukki-Chebukki will cast Meteor on whoever has hate. Because this fight takes place on a confined ship deck, everyone will get hit from it no matter where you're standing (confimation needed). That being said, the potency of Meteor was rather watered down (from what I saw), but you'll want to ensure everyones HP is topped off before it goes off.

Tenzen one-shot one of my mythic WAR's with a version of Amatsu not currently listed on BG. I'll have to ask him again what it was later, but to be fair, he was in his WS build when it happened.

Everyone commented at some point during the fight that Tenzen was very evasive (1 DD missed his WS twice I think) and that he had high -DT, especially as the fight progressed on. More clarification may be needed, but I think this is a BC in which Tenzen needs to be defeated as quickly as possible.

EDIT: I think the DD's subbed /NIN last night.

That would be nice, if almost all of the new 2.0 content they're adding involve at least one high-damage cheese move that even with -50% PDT most DD's will be one shot with.

In the instance of this fight, it certainly seems to be that way, as his Enlightenment move dealt around 3k dmg to an Ochain paladin with G.Horn Scherzo on (and a variety of other defensive buffs), and pretty much wiped him out in a single shot, at least two times in the fight, under difficult.