Monsters With Missing BLU Magic

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2017-05-14
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Monsters with missing BLU magic
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2014-02-14 08:49:59
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I had always wondered why SE never implemented spells for certain monsters, either because they were skipped, forgotten, or are planned for the future.

For instance, Orobons, Corpselights, Yovra; These are all in older content areas and no BLU magic was ever released for them (that I'm aware of, correct me if im wrong). Yes, I understand that Corpselights only had one move, but still. Even monsters like Mantis (which did not have many mobs pre adoulin) have no learnable magic.

And then there's a whole line of voidwatch NMs that are unique but do not provide the opportunity to learn any BLU magic (Hahava/Uptala, Morta, Pil). Even those 6 floating Statue things (forget their race, but Rani/Pil was one of them), we never got any unique spells.

And fast forward to today, many new monster, such as Raaz and those large Sheepmane rams in Kamihr provide no learnable spells. Is there any plans to increase this list of learnale spells, which will include some of the spells that were 'missed' previously?

I remember when BLU was released, they almost ALWAYS released a blu spell per monster. Now, as new monsters are added, it seems the list of spells we can use is starting to be fewer and far in between. They even gave us Naak spells (from 3 of them, which at best, are situational and somewhat unreliable), but what about other big-name monsters? Shouldn't we be able to learn from them?

Add any other monsters/spells I may have missed.
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2014-02-14 12:10:37
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I will say that with as many mobs and spells as are out there waiting to be learned, blu has a ***ton of spells already. Like, ~168 of them I think. Compared to rdm's 113, sch's 101, blm's 99 and whm's 110.

Granted, we don't have full access to these spells all the time so I don't think it's really a problem but from SE's perspective, that's quite a bit of resources.

I don't realistically think they will give us spells from every mob, and hell, some mob types don't even have any spells to learn. Honestly, I'm fine with that, so long as they give us quality spells that give us a fairly secure spot in events and make them NOT cost 6 freaking set points just cause they have a borderline worthless trait attached to the individual spell.

But look at all that they have to pick from! They have no excuse to give us poor spells... Here are the mob families(that actually have tp attacks) we don't yet have spells from as far as I know:
Cehuetzi (Kumhau)
Yggdreant (Yumcax)
Waktza (Hurkan)

Snapweed
Leafkin
Mantid
Raaz
Yztarg
Botulus
Sandworm
Harpeia
Tulfaires
Orobon
Pteraketos
Corpselight
Naraka
Pet Wyvern
Acrolith
Caturae
Detector
Iron Giant
Marolith
Mimic
Monoceros
Pixie
Gallu
Zilant
Yovra
Receptacle
Meeble
Chariot
Gear
Rampart
Automaton
Biotechnological Weapon
Replica
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By Mookies 2014-04-10 00:55:28
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Learning new spells from new enemies and old is what blu is about. You don't just stop adding them because there are "too many." It's an integral part of the job.

I'm quite disappointed that they stopped adding spells, especially with all of the new mob types being introduced. It's lazy, plain and simple.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-04-10 07:26:52
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they just added a bunch less than 6 months ago.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2014-04-10 07:56:57
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The point that was being made Jassik is that the job itself is based around having spells from every fiend in vanadiel. It is quite silly the list is cut sort, simply because they don't have time to add them, or because its non-essential. Even completely worthless spells, like Exuviation and Voracious Trunk got thrown a bone and we can learn it.

Now I wouldn't in my wildest dream necessarily be setting those spells, but the principle behind the job is being breached.

And then there are some really, REALLY cool spells they could add, but instead, choose to give us some crap! We even get two spells from certain monsters (Asuran Claws and Plenilune Embrace from Gnoles, but the former is trash)

I'd be happy for some Harpeia and Orobon spells. I think something that can Charm would be really cool, if only for 30seconds like BRD can. And then there's the whole line of VWNM monsters we got nothing from.

Come on man, don't be lazy, we can only set 5-8 useful ones anyways, as most of our points are absorbed through job traits and not really useful spells in and of themselves.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-04-10 08:00:04
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How very dare you call Exuviation completely worthless

Thats like calling a war hero a waste of oxygen or something, totally disrespectful
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 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2014-04-10 08:15:05
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
How very dare you call Exuviation completely worthless

Thats like calling a war hero a waste of oxygen or something, totally disrespectful
And call plenilune good... The hell.
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-10 08:17:38
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Mookies said: »
Learning new spells from new enemies and old is what blu is about. You don't just stop adding them because there are "too many." It's an integral part of the job.

I'm quite disappointed that they stopped adding spells, especially with all of the new mob types being introduced. It's lazy, plain and simple.
There may be a memory limit being hit on them, honestly I'm a bit surprised they haven't broken a bunch of stuff with the constant additions of code in the spaghetti.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2014-04-10 10:08:54
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Ok Forgive my sharp tongue. Worthless wans't the word I was totally searching for (frustration took over). My point is, are you setting Exuviation regularly? Is it that "go to spell" for erasing debuffs? Most are using winds of promy,I mean, its only 1 more set point and is AOE

I'm just disappointed in the priority of their spell selection sometimes.

And about Plenilune, lol, you're right. I personally use Magic Fruit, and never use embrace. But since I as a Galka just got an MP boost, I could be encouraged to change my mind.
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2014-04-10 19:52:04
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Ok Forgive my sharp tongue. Worthless wans't the word I was totally searching for (frustration took over). My point is, are you setting Exuviation regularly? Is it that "go to spell" for erasing debuffs? Most are using winds of promy,I mean, its only 1 more set point and is AOE

I'm just disappointed in the priority of their spell selection sometimes.

And about Plenilune, lol, you're right. I personally use Magic Fruit, and never use embrace. But since I as a Galka just got an MP boost, I could be encouraged to change my mind.

Back at 75 it was, WoP didn't exist back then and while you couldn't always fit it in your sets, it was still good and used often, especially if tanking because diffusion exuviation was great for an exceptional hate spike.

Is it useful now? Not really but neither is headbutt and that was a job defining spell.

And don't change your mind, fruit is better, it isn't even just about mp cost.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-04-10 19:54:49
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Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Ok Forgive my sharp tongue. Worthless wans't the word I was totally searching for (frustration took over). My point is, are you setting Exuviation regularly? Is it that "go to spell" for erasing debuffs? Most are using winds of promy,I mean, its only 1 more set point and is AOE

I'm just disappointed in the priority of their spell selection sometimes.

And about Plenilune, lol, you're right. I personally use Magic Fruit, and never use embrace. But since I as a Galka just got an MP boost, I could be encouraged to change my mind.

Back at 75 it was, WoP didn't exist back then and while you couldn't always fit it in your sets, it was still good and used often, especially if tanking because diffusion exuviation was great for an exceptional hate spike.

Is it useful now? Not really but neither is headbutt and that was a job defining spell.

And don't change your mind, fruit is better, it isn't even just about mp cost.

Doesn't the attack/Matt boost from PE overwrite even stronger attack buffs that share the same slot?
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2014-04-10 20:09:50
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Doesn't the attack/Matt boost from PE overwrite even stronger attack buffs that share the same slot?
I'm pretty sure it doesn't stack with memento mori but it's been so long I don't recall what else it messes with.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-07-17 10:11:27
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Where's my Blue Magic???
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2017-07-17 10:55:59
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You've got the cart before the horse.

The goal is not for blu to get a spell from every monster, its for the Job to be fun and interesting, so they added spells accordingly.

I may as well complain that bst can't charm every mob in the game (undead, HNM, players, etc), or pup doesn't have an THF, RUN, GEO, SCH or other automaton builds to fill every other job in the game.

Where's is Smn's siren or Phoenix?

Blu is already and exceptionally versatile and powerful job. Its loads of fun. quit yer whinin'
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By LennartHK 2017-07-17 11:05:04
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I've wanted a caturae spell for almost 7 years, come on SE
a magical stoneskinesque spell would be fun ***.
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By Sylph.Gobbo 2017-07-17 12:02:59
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LennartHK said: »
I've wanted a caturae spell for almost 7 years, come on SE
a magical stoneskinesque spell would be fun ***.

Yeah, they should give us Magic Barrier from Ahrimans at least!
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 Asura.Avallon
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By Asura.Avallon 2017-07-17 12:10:40
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Oh hush... just watch and see - SE will give BLU Unfaltering Bravado and Gardez and then BLU will be bandwagon again. :)
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-07-17 12:11:39
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Not getting the analogy of cart before the horse. Don't think that one applies here.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2017-07-17 13:29:15
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Not getting the analogy of cart before the horse. Don't think that one applies here.


the expectation of having a blu spell from each monsters has the perspective backwards.

but yeah, kinda a few jumps away mentally.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-07-17 13:48:23
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The job itself is predicated on using monster-learned abilities for utility/damage/support. That's the foundation of the job. That is not the same as having the perspective backwards. When te job was initially released, it was monster > spell. They have gotten away from that within the past few years, and jumped quite a bit of neat ones along the way.
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By Leviathan.Isiolia 2017-07-17 15:40:00
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When BLU was new, the general situation was for a given mob type to have one move to learn, sure. Offhand, the exceptions to that for 1-75 are from the Aht Urgan beastmen, and even those are split between mage/melee types.

However, there are a good number of mob types that were around since before ToAU was released that - when the job was new - had nothing to learn, and wouldn't until post-75.

Still, based on that early trend, equating a mob type to (eventually) a spell makes some sense. Any new magic would likely come from a family we hadn't learned a spell from yet.

That logic tends to fall apart when you start looking at post-75 spells though. The job did get some of those gaps filled (like Empty mobs), but there's also a lot of double-dipping. In part, that likely stems from SE reusing a lot of assets in general at that time. Still, that's what SE opted to add to Blue Magic to continue strengthening and balancing the job.

If the point was ever to try and give us spells from every mob type, that would seem to have been abandoned a very long time ago. However, it also means we get stuff like the full set of hybrid elemental nukes (as those are all two spells from one mob type)...and that's hard to complain about. To me, it's just a matter of SE prioritizing what spells bring to the job over putting a check (and only a single check!) next to each mob type.

It's usually fun for any job to get new stuff - BLU already has a ton of spells to learn, and has been in a great place for a while. Unless that changes, there's little reason to add more spells.
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By LennartHK 2017-07-17 15:50:10
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Sylph.Gobbo said: »
LennartHK said: »
I've wanted a caturae spell for almost 7 years, come on SE
a magical stoneskinesque spell would be fun ***.

Yeah, they should give us Magic Barrier from Ahrimans at least!
My idea of a simple magical based stoneskin effect like the caturae use that we can diffuse and boost the potency of with skill would be a lot more balance friendly though. Ahriman one, even nerfed into like a phalanx style buff, would be a lot harder to balance.

I don't want something overpowered, I just want something.
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By Sylph.Gobbo 2017-07-17 17:35:34
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LennartHK said: »
My idea of a simple magical based stoneskin effect like the caturae use that we can diffuse and boost the potency of with skill would be a lot more balance friendly though.

The joke was we have one already and it's called Magic Barrier. Does literally what you say: The damage absorbed equals your skill on cast.

As far as new spells go, I was REALLY hoping we got Slice 'n' Dice when we were given Adoulin spells. I liked the idea of getting a really strong choke effect seeing how there's no good way of lowering Mob VIT outside of Impact and it would be a great melee analogue of Searing Tempest's or Gates of Hades's Burn effect.
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By LennartHK 2017-07-17 17:50:44
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I just want to cast caturae tp moves damn it!
Ever since I got shrek'd by shadow wreck with the first one lol
Animations are all so rediculously well designed.
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By Sylph.Gobbo 2017-07-17 17:58:00
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LennartHK said: »
I just want to cast caturae tp moves damn it!
Ever since I got shrek'd by shadow wreck with the first one lol
Animations are all so rediculously well designed.

Of all the Caturae abilities, if we got to choose to have 1 I'd want Discordant Gambit. Does a couple of things for us:
1) Offers a unique and very useful debuff we can't do or isn't readily available.
2) Gives us a Dark-Damage Nuke we could spam in Unbridled Wisdom.

The rest are either too strong and wouldn't work (curse, amnesia, throat stab) or we already have a version of that ability like MDB and Defense Down.
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By fillerbunny9 2017-07-18 09:53:52
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personally, I think spells worth using under Unbridled Learning aside from Mighty Guard would be nice. it was so rare that we used the HNM spells, and the Vagary spells were a Cruel Joke. *rimshot*

the problem they have always had is balancing the power of the spell vs cost vs duration vs utility. Head Butt and Bludgeon were our bread and butter damage spells for basically until we could get spells from Sea (bit of a simplification, but honestly not much of one) because they were cheap, spammable, and scaled well/useful. throw in Cocoon and Pollen/Magic Fruit for defense and curing, and we are left with the rest of our list as filler (all those spells we'd set for Auto-Refresh but rarely if ever cast) or niche situations (cannonballing). I remember doing ***like skillchaining Chain Affinity > Sneak Attack > Sickle Slash in bird parties and knocking off 3/4 of their HP, but we couldn't do that particularly often, and Colibri were always quite squishy.

after the spells from Sea, we really didn't see anything amazing until we started getting stuff from the Empty and Adoulin - both of which treated us pretty well for damage and support. I kinda feel like BLU isn't going to be seeing much love until it's fallen significantly behind. the gear that has been available to BLU since the introduction of Omen has been extremely limited, both in availability and functionality. additionally, the dev team is obviously focused on Stormblood, and has been for the past few months, so they're not going to devote more than the bare minimum of resources for probably a little while longer yet.
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