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 Cerberus.Jonsnow
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By Cerberus.Jonsnow 2013-05-16 11:01:06
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Bard seems to be in high demand for Delve parties these days and I am looking for some advice on what songs , if any particular ones, are expected to be used here or any advice that will help me to be a valued member in a Delve party . I have not played Bard seriously, other then to keep it leveled, since the old bird camp days so any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
 Cerberus.Diabolique
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By Cerberus.Diabolique 2013-05-16 11:12:24
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I was usually asked to do March + Madrigal(Two song Brd) when in a DD party, and then a standard Ballad+Ballad in a tank party(for the whms and junk).
It will probably depend on the group though. If you're in a party with a Cor(using Hunter's) you probably won't need to madrigal at all.

Even if I had a good idea on what songs were wanted, I tried to ask the group at the start just to be sure.
 Odin.Sawtelle
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By Odin.Sawtelle 2013-05-16 11:13:31
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You honestly can treat it just like bird camp if you are doing point farming. march/march, elegy, keep 1-2 mobs slept by party w/ lullaby, ballad mages. If you are doing actual NMs you might be asked for madrigal.
 Shiva.Tedril
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By Shiva.Tedril 2013-05-16 11:17:42
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I start with marches in hope the DDs brought food /acc gear. I keep my chat log showing my pt's misses and even I see a lot I swap to madrigal+march. Hopefully I will have daura soon though lol
 Cerberus.Jonsnow
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By Cerberus.Jonsnow 2013-05-16 11:19:25
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Ok cool and TY I was worried that I would need ice/thunder carol 2 which I have not been able to find as of yet. I am in your dept.
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By Asura.Zizek 2013-05-16 11:19:59
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marchx2 or march+madrigal the dds, pianissimo ballad2&3 the whm (but wait 30-40 seconds in case they recieved march), pianissimo + Mazurka elegy to pull then lullaby back at camp. Can keep all adds slept repetitively with high magic accuracy and skill. Rinse, repeat.
 Cerberus.Jonsnow
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By Cerberus.Jonsnow 2013-05-16 11:21:08
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Forgive my ignorance but what is "Daura"
 Cerberus.Jonsnow
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By Cerberus.Jonsnow 2013-05-16 11:23:10
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Also sub Nin for pulling?
 Asura.Zizek
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By Asura.Zizek 2013-05-16 11:24:55
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you can but i've always subbed rdm to refresh the whm, preference i would say, only diremites hit hard enough to scare a bard puller into yellow hp, and it would have to be a long pull.
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By Odin.Sawtelle 2013-05-16 11:25:08
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http://www.ffxiah.com/item/18571/daurdabla

and I would ask you leader, but my brds normally sub mage.
 Odin.Sawtelle
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By Odin.Sawtelle 2013-05-16 11:29:01
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Also, probably a good thing to read over this:

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/35597/you-spoony-guide-a-troubadours-libretto/

to find out gear you might wanna try to work on or play style improvements.
 Valefor.Sapphire
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By Valefor.Sapphire 2013-05-16 12:55:54
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For Plasm runs:

  • Please have some -PDT gear (terra staff/twilight neck/umbra cape/ aug dark rings) mixed with a refresh idle set. Seein way too many bards that fulltime af3.

    If you join a well experienced party that has double pullers they will be bringing in 2-5 monsters at a time. You should always have a mental note of which direction your pullers ran off to and keep an eye on that direction so you can be the first one positioned ahead of the camp and have a lullaby song ready to cast once you see them coming down the hallway with a large pull.

    With perfect timing and positioning , your lullaby will land on the pull right when the puller enters the camp so they can keep running off to get to get more monsters.

    The PDT set crucial for when stuff wakes up and starts beating on you - if you idle in a chatoyant and af3 instead of pdt and refresh gear you be dead/waste the attention and mp of the whm you are there to support. Been seeing way to many bards that dont gearswap and dont do anything but songs and sitting on full mp while the whm struggles with mp. Don't be that bard!



  • If you have full mp then you should be helping heal or refreshing stoneskin/blink/aquaveil if it isnt up. You will be getting hit and you will be trying to cast heals on other people or yourself and have things wake up at random times and try to interrupt you.
    I usually /sch for accession heal/stoneskin/blink the DDs since they cluster up around the same monster or things get lullabied in a cluster so its easy to buff/heal them all with those spells.
    When I /whm then I help maintain a haste rotation on the DDs and divine seal heal someone in trouble.
    Regardless of sub you should be casting erase on DDs since there is no shortage of monsters that do atk down/slow




  • Max merits on lullaby recast merits and song recast gear like sheikh gloves will make it so you have an endless supply of lullabys to spam if you need to.



  • Save nightengale+troubadour to 100% lullaby lockdown extra large pulls and quickly redo all songs for dd+mages. This is your 'panic button' not your 'im lazy and wanna just redo songs' button.



Learn the zone and pianissimo mazurka+ballad3 yourself if everyone is properly taken care of with songs/buffs. You can scout ahead and help pull or drop a heal on a puller that may be running low on hp before they make it to camp.

  • Pulling Tip:
    Aggro pulls are better than pulling with a song.
    With perfectly judged distance to a monster you can run towards it and flip a U-turn right as you enter its aggro range and not lose mazurka while aggroing it and staying ahead of it. You can safely pull without ever getting hit with practice and even sometimes get so far ahead that a pull will deaggro you for better or worse.


  • There's always time to elegy a monster or two on top of everything else going on. Bard is easily the most intense job in the game for this event if you aim to do all of this stuff i've listeed.

[+]
 Asura.Zizek
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By Asura.Zizek 2013-05-16 13:12:41
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edit: nvm you covered the first bit, but it still stands even with 12% movement and no mazurka, the mobs deaggro easily
Does getting hit with blink on lose mazurka?
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By Asura.Aikchan 2013-05-16 13:16:46
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Valefor.Sapphire said: »
For Plasm runs:

  • Please have some -PDT gear (terra staff/twilight neck/umbra cape/ aug dark rings) mixed with a refresh idle set. Seein way too many bards that fulltime af3.

    If you join a well experienced party that has double pullers they will be bringing in 2-5 monsters at a time. You should always have a mental note of which direction your pullers ran off to and keep an eye on that direction so you can be the first one positioned ahead of the camp and have a lullaby song ready to cast once you see them coming down the hallway with a large pull.

    With perfect timing and positioning , your lullaby will land on the pull right when the puller enters the camp so they can keep running off to get to get more monsters.

    The PDT set crucial for when stuff wakes up and starts beating on you - if you idle in a chatoyant and af3 instead of pdt and refresh gear you be dead/waste the attention and mp of the whm you are there to support. Been seeing way to many bards that dont gearswap and dont do anything but songs and sitting on full mp while the whm struggles with mp. Don't be that bard!



  • If you have full mp then you should be helping heal or refreshing stoneskin/blink/aquaveil if it isnt up. You will be getting hit and you will be trying to cast heals on other people or yourself and have things wake up at random times and try to interrupt you.
    I usually /sch for accession heal/stoneskin/blink the DDs since they cluster up around the same monster or things get lullabied in a cluster so its easy to buff/heal them all with those spells.
    When I /whm then I help maintain a haste rotation on the DDs and divine seal heal someone in trouble.
    Regardless of sub you should be casting erase on DDs since there is no shortage of monsters that do atk down/slow




  • Max merits on lullaby recast merits and song recast gear like sheikh gloves will make it so you have an endless supply of lullabys to spam if you need to.



  • Save nightengale+troubadour to 100% lullaby lockdown extra large pulls and quickly redo all songs for dd+mages. This is your 'panic button' not your 'im lazy and wanna just redo songs' button.



Learn the zone and pianissimo mazurka+ballad3 yourself if everyone is properly taken care of with songs/buffs. You can scout ahead and help pull or drop a heal on a puller that may be running low on hp before they make it to camp.

  • Pulling Tip:
    Aggro pulls are better than pulling with a song.
    With perfectly judged distance to a monster you can run towards it and flip a U-turn right as you enter its aggro range and not lose mazurka while aggroing it and staying ahead of it. You can safely pull without ever getting hit with practice and even sometimes get so far ahead that a pull will deaggro you for better or worse.


  • There's always time to elegy a monster or two on top of everything else going on. Bard is easily the most intense job in the game for this event if you aim to do all of this stuff i've listeed.

lol @ all that...

I have done many runs BRD/RDM, No problem pulling mobs and FULL TIME AF3!(Even that I have my precast gear that cast most songs @ 20%), pull with elegy @ max range, Sleep them before they hit you, not hard to do. Keep DD's always w/ songs. Keep WHM or SCH w/ @ least 2 ballads, and Predule COR if is actually doing anything else besides Rolls.

If you're are having all those "issues" or needed all that you said... you have been in really bad groups... Even In groups where DD's wanna "solo" each mob or keep hitting the mobs I Sleep I haven't had any Issues.

Even /RDM I have never heal any DD, that's the healer's work, Gjallarhorn 95/Daurdabla 90, My work is keep 2or 3 ballads on the Healer, all of my healers always have over 80% mana, if they have good idle gear they might be over 95%.

But Well I'm a BRD since those "Ninja burn colibris" and "Mammol Burns" So I do actually know how to play the job and keep my self alive, cant say the same from those brd that FC'd to 99 and cant land a elegy or lullaby on those mobs.
 Valefor.Sapphire
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By Valefor.Sapphire 2013-05-16 13:27:18
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Asura.Zizek said: »
edit: nvm you covered the first bit, but it still stands even with 12% movement and no mazurka, the mobs deaggro easily
Does getting hit with blink on lose mazurka?
If they get a combat round to attack you because you are too close regardless of buffs, then you lose mazurka. Being able to keep mazurka on is still worthwhile with proper pulls because the extra mobility is useful.
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By Afania 2013-05-16 13:32:41
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Asura.Aikchan said: »
and Predule COR if is actually doing anything else besides Rolls.

Marchx2+minuet or madrigal for COR unless he's doing wrong.
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-05-16 13:43:32
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And dafuq at lullaby merits. Madrigal/Minuet all day
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 Fenrir.Flamm
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By Fenrir.Flamm 2013-05-16 14:00:47
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Aikchan said:
Even /RDM I have never heal any DD, that's the healer's work, Gjallarhorn 95/Daurdabla 90, My work is keep 2or 3 ballads on the Healer, all of my healers always have over 80% mana, if they have good idle gear they might be over 95%.

If you have to heal on brd you're doing it wrong
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By Chyula 2013-05-16 14:24:33
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if the require me to use pianissmo for ballad, I will just tell them learn to *** play at right spot.
 Valefor.Sapphire
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By Valefor.Sapphire 2013-05-16 14:29:32
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Too bad that some bards with years of experience waste it on telling everyone how awesome they are instead of offering playstyle/subjob tips instead of 'suck less abynoob' and 'get on my level'.
Pug groups can be terrible and what I listed works for me as a 2song only bard and I can help carry an uncoordinated pug group to 6k+ plasm runs.

The thing about pug groups is that you have to play defensively and help heal sometimes instead of sitting back like a diva and whining about how everyone sucks. Healers dont stand in the right spot so you have to pianissimo them etc.

Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
And dafuq at lullaby merits. Madrigal/Minuet all day
cause everyone has a 3-4 song harp and a relic horn horn and everyone else in the group plays flawlessly, right?
I'd love to hear why a 2song bard would do anything besides double march in a plasm pug run.
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 Cerberus.Jonsnow
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By Cerberus.Jonsnow 2013-05-16 15:02:42
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Again thank you all for your input on this topic. There is a lot of useful information here and I like to think I am intelligent enough to gather from this information I can use to help me become as good a Bard as I can be based on the limitations of my ability or gear. I will start working on an Empy harp but only have limited LS support at the moment and would like to start on Delve as a two song Bard. I am not sure how much of a hindrance, if any, this will be.

I also have another question. I saw on the Bard guide forum and also someone mention it here about a precast gear set. Forgive my ignorance but I have no idea what this means.
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-05-16 15:45:19
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Valefor.Sapphire said: »
cause everyone has a 3-4 song harp and a relic horn horn and everyone else in the group plays flawlessly, right?
I'd love to hear why a 2song bard would do anything besides double march in a plasm pug run.

90 Daurdabla is hard

And there are plenty of fights that require bard swapping for clears and whatnot, so even if you're terrible enough to be an active bard that still doesn't have a 90 DDB, madrigal merits are downright necessary
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 Bismarck.Altar
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By Bismarck.Altar 2013-05-16 18:33:13
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Lullaby merits were only good in the time period when acc was irrelevant.

Now that acc is important again *and* there are *four* lullabies to choose from, theres zero reason to merit lullaby.

As people alluded to above, bard swaps are often still required, and/or it may be necessary to play minuet or madrigal or a mix, depending on the situation.
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 Cerberus.Diabolique
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By Cerberus.Diabolique 2013-05-16 20:26:02
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Cerberus.Jonsnow said: »
I also have another question. I saw on the Bard guide forum and also someone mention it here about a precast gear set. Forgive my ignorance but I have no idea what this means.
You start your song in -Song spellcasting time and fast cast gear, and try to end in AF3(Due to set bonus) for enhancing songs, and add some -song recast delay/Macc for Lullaby/Elegy/Finale.

It's not ideal at all(missing so many things) but this is what I use
ItemSet 300944
Only -2% augment on Dweomer knife and Azdaja won't drop Felibre's for me. Again, not a great set, but none of it is overly difficult to get.
This can be really difficult to pull off without either windower .txt macros or spellcast, though I'm sure it's possible to do. Just not sure how with so few macro lines available.
 Cerberus.Jonsnow
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By Cerberus.Jonsnow 2013-05-17 06:31:27
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Cerberus.Diabolique said: »
Cerberus.Jonsnow said: »
I also have another question. I saw on the Bard guide forum and also someone mention it here about a precast gear set. Forgive my ignorance but I have no idea what this means.
You start your song in -Song spellcasting time and fast cast gear, and try to end in AF3(Due to set bonus) for enhancing songs, and add some -song recast delay/Macc for Lullaby/Elegy/Finale.

It's not ideal at all(missing so many things) but this is what I use
ItemSet 300944
Only -2% augment on Dweomer knife and Azdaja won't drop Felibre's for me. Again, not a great set, but none of it is overly difficult to get.
This can be really difficult to pull off without either windower .txt macros or spellcast, though I'm sure it's possible to do. Just not sure how with so few macro lines available.

Thank you, I thought that was what it meant but was not 100% sure. I am also sure you are correct about how difficult this will be to pull off since I am playing on Xbox. I could add 5 items to each song macro with another macro to switch them out prior the song going off. I will need to play around with it some to see what I can work out.
Again TY
 Shiva.Bailiegrace
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By Shiva.Bailiegrace 2013-05-19 02:22:15
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The songs that I do vary.
Songs that have been requested
1. x2 march + mad
2.x2 mad + march
3.march + mad + minuet

If you have Apajamas, you can use that in place of daggers for precast on daggers if you are in need of narrowing down where to put -spellcast at.
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2013-05-19 08:54:05
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Shiva.Bailiegrace said: »
The songs that I do vary.
Songs that have been requested
1. x2 march + mad
2.x2 mad + march
3.march + mad + minuet

If you have Apajamas, you can use that in place of daggers for precast on daggers if you are in need of narrowing down where to put -spellcast at.
Apajamas only provides fastcast for thunder based spells/songs. So while it would provide a larger boost, it would only work for Marches or other thunder songs. For someone without spellcast or script macros, it would likely be more complicated to use.

For those without windower/spellcast, anytime you're casting songs you could full time most of your fastcast gear:
dagger
+2 hat
neck
both earrings
ring
back
waist

That would allow you to macro in the 4 other pieces for precast and then put on full +2 for the set bonus. Though I always recommend being on pc and using windower/sc for those who can.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Hidegger 2013-05-19 09:27:12
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I think the idea was you will only be using marches and madrigals for buffs in delve, so Apajamas I should suffice for delve. Unless you are a 4 song brd or soul voice 3 songs or swapping parties you should not be putting up Minuets.
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 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2013-05-19 09:55:12
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Quetzalcoatl.Hidegger said: »
I think the idea was you will only be using marches and madrigals for buffs in delve, so Apajamas I should suffice for delve. Unless you are a 4 song brd or soul voice 3 songs or swapping parties you should not be putting up Minuets.


A few days ago I joined a Morimar pt and pt lead asked march x2 minuets x2 chaos DA roll, and they didn't have acc issue....we cleared entire room and 2 rooms near the main room that we often had to wait for repop because there weren't enough mobs.

I'm not sure what's their TP set since I didn't check, but I was wondering if it's possible to cap acc with just gear/food alone?
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By Quetzalcoatl.Hidegger 2013-05-20 14:14:44
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NMs? theirs no way you fought NMs w/o Hunters or madrigals and didn't have accuracy problems. And as a 2 song brd doing plasm farm 2 marches should be done before you are asked to give minuets.
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