Charm?!

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Charm?!
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 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-03-29 23:16:26
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Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
More like a proc we should have had years ago, that doesn't change the fact that nobody wants us in ANY goddam event except salvage lol.

Hey at least you are wanted for a relevant event?

No, it's not like "would you go pup?", It's more like "Hey can I go pup?" "Ok, that's fine for salvage" lol.
 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2013-03-29 23:27:59
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Enuyasha said: »
Cerberus.Conagh said: »

It's all swings and roundabouts, can't be win win all the time.

It's all situational, as Jug pets and charm has ever been, in Aldoulin at 99 your charm set should be substantial that a charmed pet lasts 1 mob, uncharm- convert yer pet and you're fine.

If you don't and you die. Well who's to blame!
 Carbuncle.Sterling
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By Carbuncle.Sterling 2013-03-29 23:28:37
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Wow, so much BST hate. If you don't like it, simply don't play it. I never found BST particularly hard but pre-Aby you did get a lot more solo experience and had to really devote yourself to the levels. Sitting in a zone charming leeches to kill leeches for 8 hours to get a level or two sucks *** but if you wanted that solo job you would commit to it. It was certainly no /fight and go get a sandwich job.
 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-03-29 23:33:28
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Carbuncle.Sterling said: »
Wow, so much BST hate. If you don't like it, simply don't play it. I never found BST particularly hard but pre-Aby you did get a lot more solo experience and had to really devote yourself to the levels. Sitting in a zone charming leeches to kill leeches for 8 hours to get a level or two sucks *** but if you wanted that solo job you would commit to it. It was certainly no /fight and go get a sandwich job.

There hasn't been any hatred towards the job, just the degree of difficulty. Like I said, its primary role is the same as it was last week. As much as tenshibabe wants it to be, this charm update isn't going to affect the abyssea burned BSTs that didn't play the job at the 75 cap.
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By Enuyasha 2013-03-29 23:46:35
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Cerberus.Conagh said: »
Enuyasha said: »
Cerberus.Conagh said: »

It's all swings and roundabouts, can't be win win all the time.

It's all situational, as Jug pets and charm has ever been, in Aldoulin at 99 your charm set should be substantial that a charmed pet lasts 1 mob, uncharm- convert yer pet and you're fine.

If you don't and you die. Well who's to blame!
yes, your situation also accounts for a probobly limited use of a small pool of mobs thata re not always available. I do like not fighting an NM and then,hey, the other BST seems to have pulled my charms or this EXP party seems to be camping on my mobs.
 Asura.Nimrot
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By Asura.Nimrot 2013-03-30 01:46:34
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no need to worry about miss charms real bst use miss charms sets and / nin + heavy regen sets /pots for cure
 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2013-03-30 01:51:09
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Enuyasha said: »
Cerberus.Conagh said: »
Enuyasha said: »
Cerberus.Conagh said: »

It's all swings and roundabouts, can't be win win all the time.

It's all situational, as Jug pets and charm has ever been, in Aldoulin at 99 your charm set should be substantial that a charmed pet lasts 1 mob, uncharm- convert yer pet and you're fine.

If you don't and you die. Well who's to blame!
yes, your situation also accounts for a probobly limited use of a small pool of mobs thata re not always available. I do like not fighting an NM and then,hey, the other BST seems to have pulled my charms or this EXP party seems to be camping on my mobs.

You're a glass half full kinda person aye.
 Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby
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By Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby 2013-03-30 06:18:48
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Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Carbuncle.Sterling said: »
Wow, so much BST hate. If you don't like it, simply don't play it. I never found BST particularly hard but pre-Aby you did get a lot more solo experience and had to really devote yourself to the levels. Sitting in a zone charming leeches to kill leeches for 8 hours to get a level or two sucks *** but if you wanted that solo job you would commit to it. It was certainly no /fight and go get a sandwich job.

There hasn't been any hatred towards the job, just the degree of difficulty. Like I said, its primary role is the same as it was last week. As much as tenshibabe wants it to be, this charm update isn't going to affect the abyssea burned BSTs that didn't play the job at the 75 cap.
Sure. Let's perpetuate the myth that if you knew your job in Abyssea, then you are just as good as the people who actually worked for their xp, so as to diligently maintain the facade that the players that are the current gear=skill crowd are ready for solid food. The more frail the logic, the more viciously the position must be defended, hence the hate from all the fake BST's. If you honestly think using jug pets on EP's is essentially the same as charming VT's to kill other VT's... well, then you prove my point, which is that you are unaware of how much you don't know, thanks to the spoon-feeding from Abyssea. But hey, that's 80% of the 99's these days.
 Sylph.Hitetsu
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By Sylph.Hitetsu 2013-03-30 06:28:40
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Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: »
If you honestly think using jug pets on EP's is essentially the same as charming VT's to kill other VT's... well, then you prove my point, which is that you are unaware of how much you don't know, thanks to the spoon-feeding from Abyssea

It basically is, but that's a poor comparison anyway.

The entire arguement (once again) boils down to: good players will be good, bad will be bad.

A good player BST, Abyssea burned or not, will understand that a Charm set may be a vital requirement at some point. Do you know how many BST's I could find you that didn't know how to use Tame to stop themselves dying? "EVERY TIME I USE IT, IT DOESN'T WORK. WHAT DOES IT DO?????"

Why does it not work? you may ask yourself - they were trying to use it on a completely passive mob. The number of "BST from day 1" I've met that don't have something close to a reward set - even a WIP one like mine was.

People really do need to get out of the mindset that, because someone got to 99 in 2 days instead of 2 years, they're bad at their job. BST is probably the only job that springs to mind, that teaches you anything from EXP'ing - mainly because it was predominantly a solo activity. However, it still doesn't stop stupid people from hitting 99. It's only noticed more now, because smart people don't do things with stupid people - due to them not needing to.
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 Bismarck.Nahhhhhhhhhhhhh
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By Bismarck.Nahhhhhhhhhhhhh 2013-03-30 07:30:25
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Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: »
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Carbuncle.Sterling said: »
Wow, so much BST hate. If you don't like it, simply don't play it. I never found BST particularly hard but pre-Aby you did get a lot more solo experience and had to really devote yourself to the levels. Sitting in a zone charming leeches to kill leeches for 8 hours to get a level or two sucks *** but if you wanted that solo job you would commit to it. It was certainly no /fight and go get a sandwich job.

There hasn't been any hatred towards the job, just the degree of difficulty. Like I said, its primary role is the same as it was last week. As much as tenshibabe wants it to be, this charm update isn't going to affect the abyssea burned BSTs that didn't play the job at the 75 cap.
Sure. Let's perpetuate the myth that if you knew your job in Abyssea, then you are just as good as the people who actually worked for their xp, so as to diligently maintain the facade that the players that are the current gear=skill crowd are ready for solid food. The more frail the logic, the more viciously the position must be defended, hence the hate from all the fake BST's. If you honestly think using jug pets on EP's is essentially the same as charming VT's to kill other VT's... well, then you prove my point, which is that you are unaware of how much you don't know, thanks to the spoon-feeding from Abyssea. But hey, that's 80% of the 99's these days.
If you really think charming DC-T pets or using familiar'd VTs to fight other stuff is difficult then you must find waking up in the morning and taking a leak quite the challenge.

I am very sorry and I give you my deepest condolences that something that does not seem like that much of a challenge to some of us is something that is apparently one of the greatest achievements in your life. So important in fact that 2 years after you have stopped playing you still come onto a message board to indulge your undying pride.

I can only hope that the sands of time eventually drop their last burning grain from your vagina one of these days.
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-03-30 08:06:42
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Will Kaparu and Bullwikle thwart the evil Tenshibaby's nefarious fuzzy logic? Find out next time in "BST is Hard," or, "Don't Argue With People Who Merited Step Accuracy."
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 Leviathan.Veltan
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By Leviathan.Veltan 2013-03-30 09:04:51
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Odin.Eikechi said: »
What did pup get? Surely you don't mean Asuran Fists lol. That was hardly a "bone".
...wait a sec, PUP got asuran fists?!?!
 Carbuncle.Sterling
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By Carbuncle.Sterling 2013-03-30 09:29:52
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Well the nice thing is that if you suck at BST solo, you'll die. You'll die a lot. If people truly suck at post-Aby BST then you won't see them outside of Aby and Dyna. And if they do suck and they actually devote the time to learning how to play the job utilizing all of the job abilities BST has to offer, then that is great- BST will have a better player base. It honestly sucked having everyone hate and make fun of the job pre-Aby. The great thing about BST is that it is a solo job, so you don't have to worry about Aby-BST being in your group and totally derping up a run (a possible problem that RUN and GEO will face for a while). If you are a devoted BST, you have BST friends that you know you can count on should you need a team up. Simply put, those that aren't willing to figure out how Charm works won't use it the new areas for very long.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2013-03-30 09:33:21
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Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
Rala Waterways, underneath the city, is filled with Charmable mobs in the T~VT range. Bats, crabs, leeches, spiders, pugils, efts, slimes...

Also, mini-Krabkatoa!

Edit: Slugs are in the zone as well.

OH MY GOD THAT IS SO CUTE
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 Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby
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By Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby 2013-03-30 09:45:09
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Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Will Kaparu and Bullwikle thwart the evil Tenshibaby's nefarious fuzzy logic? Find out next time in "BST is Hard," or, "Don't Argue With People Who Merited Step Accuracy."
"Evil"? I am the good one, and obviously know more about how to play my job than you trolls. I guess we are at an impasse: I am 100% correct and you all are 100% incapable of understanding how wrong you are.

Have fun being gimp in your skills.
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-03-30 09:45:36
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Leviathan.Veltan said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
What did pup get? Surely you don't mean Asuran Fists lol. That was hardly a "bone".
...wait a sec, PUP got asuran fists?!?!

Sloooooooooooowpoke. Yes, you can quest Asuran Fists now on pup, but it hardly does anything for the job, except give it 1 VW/aby proc.
 Bismarck.Nahhhhhhhhhhhhh
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By Bismarck.Nahhhhhhhhhhhhh 2013-03-30 10:03:32
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Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: »
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Will Kaparu and Bullwikle thwart the evil Tenshibaby's nefarious fuzzy logic? Find out next time in "BST is Hard," or, "Don't Argue With People Who Merited Step Accuracy."
"Evil"? I am the good one, and obviously know more about how to play my job than you trolls. I guess we are at an impasse: I am 100% correct and you all are 100% incapable of understanding how wrong you are.

Have fun being gimp in your skills.
Oh, you. You aren't better than anyone, we all know that.

I'll be sure to skill up my charm today.
 Bismarck.Magnuss
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By Bismarck.Magnuss 2013-03-30 10:07:37
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Bismarck.Nahhhhhhhhhhhhh said: »
I'll be sure to skill up my charm today.
Nahhhhhhhhhhhh...
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By Heimdel 2013-03-30 10:38:09
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Finally! being to lazy to AH my old gear has actually payed off!!

Something I've noticed though charm seems to have a higher success rate on T and VT now (or at least in the new area) than it did in pre aby days. Also charm on T mobs seems to last longer and or +charm gear has a greater duration not sure which. Least this is how it is seeming to me. Enemity control will be interesting to watch with people use to having snarl to use whenever needed plus the jug pets have lower acc on new area mobs so less enemity generation to pull hate. I think the changes to enemity might have a effect on it to not sure though.


Btw the augment on monster gaiters +@ increases familiar duration to 40 mins so with the 1 hour SP now makes it easy to have VT pets nearly full time. http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Mst._Trousers_%2B2
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By Heimdel 2013-03-30 10:46:20
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Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
There are no hard jobs in this game. But I don't think you can deny that beastmaster got much easier after SE ignored Charm and focused on jug pets. When you could solo 90% of Abyssea mobs by equipping Ducal Guard and using Reward whenever it's up, there's minimal skill involved there.

The jug pets made the job a lot easier in and out of aby they were just so much stronger than anything else. I remember when they were first added and going to a ls events and they would pull hate off everyone else and end up main tanking nms and people being shocked over what they were doing and how strong they were.

Even had a couple times sheep ended up tanking Kirin because it pulled hate off of kiter.
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 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2013-03-30 10:50:43
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Sylph.Hitetsu said: »
The entire arguement (once again) boils down to: good players will be good, bad will be bad.
Between people's usual delusion "I'm the best, I just have bad gear at the moment", "I'm the best, that's all there is to know" and their inflated ego "I'm full AF3+2 NIN, of course I'm the ***", "dude I can solo Cirein Croin on my DNC", you can't possibly expect any random guy such as this Tenshitbaby to understand this very simple and true answer.

Objectively, though, there is a h u g e difference between a good player and a player that can carry. Very few players can carry.
 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2013-03-30 11:32:19
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Being abyssea burned on BST means nothing, the only thing I would say about those who exp 1-75 pre aby solo, without fov and getting 180-300 exp a kill (chain 5) was that you learnt alot about the mobs you were fighting, the mobs you were charming and got some practice at when **** hit the fan.

That said being abyssea burned doesn't mean you dont know these things, but experience goes a long way in making a player skilled. That said Raw talent and youth wins on occasion.

This arguement goes back further than good and bad players, its Age and experience vs Youth and exuberence.

So carry on arguing over a pointless, unwinnable arguement!

The rest of us will find it entertaining while we continue to gain experience (real time not level experience) and surpass you all!
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 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-03-30 11:48:08
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Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: »
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Will Kaparu and Bullwikle thwart the evil Tenshibaby's nefarious fuzzy logic? Find out next time in "BST is Hard," or, "Don't Argue With People Who Merited Step Accuracy."
"Evil"? I am the good one, and obviously know more about how to play my job than you trolls. I guess we are at an impasse: I am 100% correct and you all are 100% incapable of understanding how wrong you are.

Have fun being gimp in your skills.

Have fun getting less coins than abyssea bsts in dyna because they are better than you. Now get back to your excuses.
 Sylph.Safiyyah
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By Sylph.Safiyyah 2013-03-30 12:56:12
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Wow, this whole thread went bad quickly.

On topic- it's nice to see that they've added charmable mobs, and it may open up some possibilities for BST solo-wise. But I wish there were zones like in ye olde days where we had lots of EM mob choices. Maybe I'm underestimating what kind of choices we have for Charm sets at 99 (though I don't remember any +Charm gear added after 75 cap) but charming T-VT is definitely more risky since you are looking at shorter duration without Familiar.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2013-03-30 14:30:21
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Here is a potential Charm gearset:
ItemSet 294585

And using the BG Wiki Charm Duration page, here are the expected durations with ~140 CHR (Amorph/Aquan Charm times in parenthesis):

Tough (dLevel = -1) = 8m 42s (9m 24s)
Tough (dLevel = -2) = 4m 21s (4m 42s)
Very Tough (dLevel = -3) = 2m 6s (2m 16s)
Very Tough (dLevel = -4) = 1m 34s (1m 42s)
Very Tough (dLevel = -5) = 1m 3s (1m 8s)
Incredibly Tough (dLevel = -6) = 31s (34s)

Edit: Corrected.
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 Seraph.Jacaut
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By Seraph.Jacaut 2013-03-30 14:59:09
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Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
Here is a potential Charm gearset:
ItemSet 294585

And using the BG Wiki Charm Duration page, here are the expected durations with ~140 CHR (Amorph/Aquan Charm times in parenthesis):

Tough (dLevel = -1) = 9m 43s (10m 30s)
Tough (dLevel = -2) = 4m 51s (5m 15s)
Very Tough (dLevel = -3) = 2m 21s (2m 32s)
Very Tough (dLevel = -4) = 1m 46s (1m 54s)
Very Tough (dLevel = -5) = 1m 10s (1m 16s)
Incredibly Tough (dLevel = -6) = 35s (38s)
Thanks for that im horrid with forumlas, i see math and dont even bother trying to read; lol.
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By erroneous42 2013-03-30 16:21:31
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Lakshmi.Cadant said: »
The hardest part about bst pre-abyssea was keeping your NM from getting stolen...

The hardest part for most ppl was actually leveling the job. I'm not going to act like it was super challenging, but most ppl didn't have the patience for it. You were forced to solo or duo do to the fact that it was weak in exp pts. You would grind away for an hour only to die do to mischarms & what not only to find yourself 1-2k ahead. Talk about a toss your controller moment. If the leveling system was still the same now you wouldn't have nearly the same amount of pearl bsts in dyna. No job in this game is difficult, but that was the one of only job that I have leveled that I actually felt I accomplished something by doing so. Group exp pts offered nothing as far as a challenge.
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 Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby
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By Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby 2013-03-30 16:42:10
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Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: »
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Will Kaparu and Bullwikle thwart the evil Tenshibaby's nefarious fuzzy logic? Find out next time in "BST is Hard," or, "Don't Argue With People Who Merited Step Accuracy."
"Evil"? I am the good one, and obviously know more about how to play my job than you trolls. I guess we are at an impasse: I am 100% correct and you all are 100% incapable of understanding how wrong you are.

Have fun being gimp in your skills.

Have fun getting less coins than abyssea bsts in dyna because they are better than you. Now get back to your excuses.
So now you are just inventing scenarios. How desperate.

Edit: And for the record, the debate is one side who has done X and Y and says X is harder than Y based on their vast experience doing both, and the other side who has only done Y and proclaims X is no harder than Y based on no experience but a desire to maintain the fantasy that people who got their jobs past 30-40 in Abyssea by leeching and keying with a plethora of buffs in alliances vs. EP monsters are just as good, if not better, than people who actually learned the job. Utterly pathetic.
 Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby
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By Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby 2013-03-30 16:51:30
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Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
Sylph.Hitetsu said: »
The entire arguement (once again) boils down to: good players will be good, bad will be bad.
Between people's usual delusion "I'm the best, I just have bad gear at the moment", "I'm the best, that's all there is to know" and their inflated ego "I'm full AF3+2 NIN, of course I'm the ***", "dude I can solo Cirein Croin on my DNC", you can't possibly expect any random guy such as this Tenshitbaby to understand this very simple and true answer.

Objectively, though, there is a h u g e difference between a good player and a player that can carry. Very few players can carry.
Yes, you nailed it. I have all along been saying good players will be bad, and bad players will be good, not able to comprehend the topic at hand. You are probably the smartest petit garcon in France.

/sarcasm
 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-03-30 16:53:03
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You have been wrong all along, thats all that matters.
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