Endeavoring To Awaken --A Guide To Rune Fencer

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Endeavoring to Awaken --A Guide to Rune Fencer
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 Asura.Warusha
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By Asura.Warusha 2017-12-05 11:49:49
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Asura.Evildemon said: »
Bismarck.Cloudxi said: »
if you didn't use the +1 lustratio, and just the nq, is it still the ideal piece for reso?

He just wants to know if it’s 2nd best or what is
Asura.Evildemon said: »

Still pretty sure they are looking for the non super expensive option as adhemar Bonnet +1 is out of some people’s pay grade

This is why I don't like to post on forums.
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By eliroo 2017-12-05 13:42:07
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Asura.Warusha said: »

This is why I don't like to post on forums.

Would it have been better if they asked what is a cheaper alternative?

You seem rather hostile towards someone asking a rather mundane and understandable question.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-12-05 14:01:43
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He answered the question that was asked and is getting ***for it. I would be annoyed as well.
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By eliroo 2017-12-05 14:05:48
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I don't think any statement was giving him ***for it. If anything his first reply was giving ***to someone for asking a question but none of the responses were "giving him ***" but rather clarifying the question. I still see no reason for the passive aggressive hostility.
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2017-12-05 18:42:17
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Whether it was asked particularly well or not, best Reso head EXCLUDING HQ ABJURATIONS is a perfectly reasonable question.

And even assuming you can get an abjuration piece for 20-30mil on your server (I know I can't on Phoenix, 50M is a bargain for Jinxed head there), that's a big enough price tag that it's certainly reasonable to consider cost...

Anyway, I think the answer is that they're roughly in the following order, with some potential variance based on buffs/target/other gear. (I got my numbers from some quick and dirty modifications to a current SAM spreadsheet, FWIW)

1) Herculean Helm. TA+4% augment is the most important factor, and obviously you'd ideally want some STR and whatever Atk/Acc you can get. However, even TA+4%, no STR augment, and moderate Atk seems to be about a sidegrade to next option down. Extremely good Herc augs (TA+4/STR+10/Atk+30) put this almost on par with Adhemar+1 at the very top of the pack.

2) NQ Adhemar Bonnet B

3) Lilitu Headpiece (perfect augs)

4) NQ Lustratio Cap A (close to Lilitu but generally slightly behind, might beat Lilitu under ideal conditions)

Even if you do add HQ abjurations to the mix:
* Adhemar +1 seems to beat everything including Lustratio +1 (even assuming 3/5 Lustratio set bonus, for WSD+6%). Only a truly godly Herculean Helm might beat Adhemar+1 (we're talking freakish DM augment territory).

* Also, Lustratio+1 performance depends on set bonus. If you're using less pieces, Lustratio+1 falls even further behind. With 2 pieces (WSD+4% set bonus) it should still beat anything other than Adhemar+1 or an extremely well augmented Herculean Helm. With no set bonus, it falls in below NQ Adhemar.

EDIT:
I tossed some hands into the spreadsheet as well, and got Adhemar+1 as BiS. Behind that would be NQ Adhemar B, which range from slightly above to sidegrade with Meghanada+2 (Meg+2 obviously perform best when not attack capped). Raetic Bangles don't come close to any of them.
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 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-12-05 18:59:17
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Not sure what you're doing but that seems totally off to me. The difference between Lustratio Cap +1 and Adhemar Bonnet +1.

+16 STR
+4 DEX
-4 TA
+3 DA
+4 WSD (assuming you're using feet too)

Maybe your cratio is not capped for both comparisons.
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By Celther 2017-12-05 19:00:26
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Would anyone mind sharing a current RUN spreadsheet? The one i've found was from 2016 and things like Utu Grip's mod isn't there at all (for obvious reasons)
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2017-12-05 19:03:39
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Fenrir.Snaps said: »
Not sure what you're doing but that seems totally off to me. The difference between Lustratio Cap +1 and Adhemar Bonnet +1.

+16 STR
+4 DEX
-4 TA
+3 DA
+4 WSD (assuming you're using feet too)

Maybe your cratio is not capped for both comparisons.

The multiattack seems to make a bigger difference than it might be getting credit for, though it's possible I'm off a bit. In any case, I'm very comfortable asserting that HQ Abj > Herc (TA+4/STR) > NQ Adhemar > NQ Lustratio (which isn't getting any set bonus).

EDIT: Also, you're completely ignoring Adhemar+1 have Atk+36 over Lustratio+1. Won't ALWAYS matter, but on high end targets, I don't find it irrelevant to consider that depending on your buffs and target there's a very real possibility you aren't capping attack on an attack penalty WS.
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By fonewear 2017-12-05 19:27:38
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Asura.Warusha said: »
Asura.Evildemon said: »
Bismarck.Cloudxi said: »
if you didn't use the +1 lustratio, and just the nq, is it still the ideal piece for reso?

He just wants to know if it’s 2nd best or what is
Asura.Evildemon said: »

Still pretty sure they are looking for the non super expensive option as adhemar Bonnet +1 is out of some people’s pay grade

This is why I don't like to post on forums.

Why I tend to avoid these so called "guides". It's a game people take this ***way too seriously.
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-12-05 19:40:38
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
EDIT: Also, you're completely ignoring Adhemar+1 have Atk+36 over Lustratio+1. Won't ALWAYS matter, but on high end targets, I don't find it irrelevant to consider that depending on your buffs and target there's a very real possibility you aren't capping attack on an attack penalty WS.

Fenrir.Snaps said: »
Not sure what you're doing but that seems totally off to me. The difference between Lustratio Cap +1 and Adhemar Bonnet +1.

+16 STR
+4 DEX
-4 TA
+3 DA
+4 WSD (assuming you're using feet too)

Maybe your cratio is not capped for both comparisons.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-12-05 20:03:52
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fonewear said: »
Asura.Warusha said: »
Asura.Evildemon said: »
Bismarck.Cloudxi said: »
if you didn't use the +1 lustratio, and just the nq, is it still the ideal piece for reso?

He just wants to know if it’s 2nd best or what is
Asura.Evildemon said: »

Still pretty sure they are looking for the non super expensive option as adhemar Bonnet +1 is out of some people’s pay grade

This is why I don't like to post on forums.

Why I tend to avoid these so called "guides". It's a game people take this ***way too seriously.
My only issues with most are the fact that they don't really go into detail of how to play a job properly or the conditions that the guide's sets are based on.
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2017-12-05 21:02:02
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Fenrir.Snaps said: »
Maybe your cratio is not capped for both comparisons.

Went back and confirmed with a few more situations, and I can get some cases of Lustratio Cap +1 (with 4% set bonus) barely beating Adhemar+1 with capped cratio (like, when I say barely I'm talking about ~5-10 dmg on WS).

However, Adhemar+1 seems to win easily when not capped, which is not at all uncommon for RUN on high end targets. Even with Idris Frailty/Fury + BRD or COR buffs, unless your GEO is using Bolster/BoG there's a significant (likely?) chance you aren't capping on stuff like Reisenjima T3 or harder. My practical assumption is that on difficult content, most RUNs will be uncapped far more often than capped. But maybe you only care about squeezing out a tiny bit more DPS for all-out zerg situations where you can assume Bolter/BoG - that's more a "what are you using RUN for" question.

Especially considering that Adhemar+1 is also useful for a lot of other things, versus Lustratio+1 being a fairly niche piece that's at best a slight advantage and very often (whenever uncapped) will be worse - that's something each person will have to think about for their situations. Personally, I can't justify dropping ~30mil on a piece that's sometimes a hair better than the sidegrade-ish alternative with lots of alternative TP and WS uses for the jobs I use (my personal RUN situation is that I don't even have a Lionheart and generally use my RUN for defensive purposes, using Epeo and Dimidiation most of the time). Maybe you have other uses for Lustratio+1 or feel that the minor edge for RUN Reso in specific conditions make it a worthwhile investment for you.

By all means, if someone else can better test these and get good comparison data (say, on Austar's simulation), go for it. I'm open to being corrected if someone has convincing data. Like I said, my spreadsheeting was based on a hacked up version of a current SAM spreadsheet (based on Llewelyn's earlier 2017 SAM sheet) - added proper Reso values, some RUN gear, used Lionheart. It's ugly though and maybe someone has a more accurate spreadsheet/sim.

And back to the originally asked question, it seems pretty clear to me that if we take HQ Abjurations out of the picture, the answer is TA+4%/STR Herc (ideally) or NQ Adhemar (if you have no patience for Reisenjima augments).
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-12-05 21:19:50
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
say, on Austar's simulation
RUN is probably my next one tbh, since raetic algol exists. I just need more race/sub combination data (particularly HP/MP) and to not be lazy.
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 Asura.Evildemon
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By Asura.Evildemon 2017-12-05 21:24:22
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Do you have a best set without using any hq abjurations?
 Sylph.Oraen
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By Sylph.Oraen 2017-12-05 22:18:54
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Probably this, then.

ItemSet 355045

As high of STR and TA on every Herc piece. Might get better results with Adhemar B NQ hands if the STP helps you with your TP set.
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By Afania 2017-12-05 22:32:39
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Asura.Evildemon said: »
Do you have a best set without using any hq abjurations?


Use nq adhemar then, skip the herc augment Gil sink.
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By Afania 2017-12-05 22:45:55
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »

However, Adhemar+1 seems to win easily when not capped, which is not at all uncommon for RUN on high end targets. Even with Idris Frailty/Fury + BRD or COR buffs, unless your GEO is using Bolster/BoG there's a significant (likely?) chance you aren't capping on stuff like Reisenjima T3 or harder. My practical assumption is that on difficult content, most RUNs will be uncapped far more often than capped. But maybe you only care about squeezing out a tiny bit more DPS for all-out zerg situations where you can assume Bolter/BoG - that's more a "what are you using RUN for" question.


This, I've parsed in ambu vol1 VD many times, I really, really, rarely get similar ws avg that shows on spreadsheet using my gear in attack capped situations. The fact that I often go 2 DD instead of 1 COR 1 DD doesn't help. There are times that drk are getting the right ws avg based on their gear but not RUN too.

I think I only ever get the right ws avg in escha, that's it. Even then it's probably due to temp and vorseals.

Since spreadsheet is still quite accurate when it comes to ws avg the only reason that I can think of is due to uncapped attack.

If you are creating a generic reso set on RUN, it's far more practical to create an uncapped set first then work on attack capped set that's probably only useful 5% of time.
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By Afania 2017-12-05 23:18:47
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
Maybe your cratio is not capped for both comparisons.

Went back and confirmed with a few more situations, and I can get some cases of Lustratio Cap +1 (with 4% set bonus) barely beating Adhemar+1 with capped cratio (like, when I say barely I'm talking about ~5-10 dmg on WS).

However, Adhemar+1 seems to win easily when not capped, which is not at all uncommon for RUN on high end targets. Even with Idris Frailty/Fury + BRD or COR buffs, unless your GEO is using Bolster/BoG there's a significant (likely?) chance you aren't capping on stuff like Reisenjima T3 or harder. My practical assumption is that on difficult content, most RUNs will be uncapped far more often than capped. But maybe you only care about squeezing out a tiny bit more DPS for all-out zerg situations where you can assume Bolter/BoG - that's more a "what are you using RUN for" question.

Especially considering that Adhemar+1 is also useful for a lot of other things, versus Lustratio+1 being a fairly niche piece that's at best a slight advantage and very often (whenever uncapped) will be worse - that's something each person will have to think about for their situations. Personally, I can't justify dropping ~30mil on a piece that's sometimes a hair better than the sidegrade-ish alternative with lots of alternative TP and WS uses for the jobs I use (my personal RUN situation is that I don't even have a Lionheart and generally use my RUN for defensive purposes, using Epeo and Dimidiation most of the time). Maybe you have other uses for Lustratio+1 or feel that the minor edge for RUN Reso in specific conditions make it a worthwhile investment for you.

By all means, if someone else can better test these and get good comparison data (say, on Austar's simulation), go for it. I'm open to being corrected if someone has convincing data. Like I said, my spreadsheeting was based on a hacked up version of a current SAM spreadsheet (based on Llewelyn's earlier 2017 SAM sheet) - added proper Reso values, some RUN gear, used Lionheart. It's ugly though and maybe someone has a more accurate spreadsheet/sim.

And back to the originally asked question, it seems pretty clear to me that if we take HQ Abjurations out of the picture, the answer is TA+4%/STR Herc (ideally) or NQ Adhemar (if you have no patience for Reisenjima augments).

I plugged in the number on RUN spreadsheet, instead of modified SAM sheet, I got exactly the same result: HQ adhemar wins (about 3% to 4% ahead) in attack in situations, and 10 dmg behind Lustratio +1 with capped attack. Feet and set bonus used. Keep in mind that ws avg over 27k at that point so 10 damage is equal to less than 0.05% increase.

I agree with everything Anza said. I personally only have 1 set of adhemar HQs since I tp in it on cor already. On RUN I just change adhemar augment path to B for ws and TP in QA+3 herc set instead. I can't justify spending all the Gil on another head that's 0.05% better 5% of time.

Even if I am THAT dedicated to bother with an expensive attack capped set, it's often too risky to use it since I never know if my attack is capped or not until parse result comes out. If my attack isn't capped but I ws in it, it'd be 4% WS avg lose. It's better to assume attack isn't capped and lose 0.05% of DPS when it does cap(which rarely happen), instead of losing 4% ws avg because you use the wrong set.
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 Phoenix.Gerrott
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By Phoenix.Gerrott 2017-12-06 00:03:14
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I've been using this for a long while now with really really great results. Run is pretty much my go to job for anything now. With the right support the DPS potential is so high with outstanding survival. Kinda sucks because I used to like to play Ninja and stuff so much but can't really compare to Rune Fencer x.x Great low man job too because Sylvie alone caps your parties haste if you're on Run.. have done many super low man Omen etc taking advantage of that. Lionheart Run and Idris Geo doing Fury/Frailty is a super strong duo, Adoulin jobs all day err day.


sets.WS.Resolution = {
ammo="Knobkierrie",
head="Adhemar Bonnet +1",
body={ name="Adhemar Jacket +1", augments={'STR+12','DEX+12','Attack+20',}},
hands={ name="Adhemar Wrist. +1", augments={'STR+12','DEX+12','Attack+20',}},
--hands={ name="Herculean Gloves", augments={'Accuracy+16 Attack+16','"Triple Atk."+4','DEX+10','Accuracy+9','Attack+14',}},
--legs={ name="Samnuha Tights", augments={'STR+10','DEX+10','"Dbl.Atk."+3','"Triple Atk."+3',}},
legs="Meg. Chausses +2",
--feet={ name="Herculean Boots", augments={'Attack+29','"Triple Atk."+4','AGI+7','Accuracy+14',}},
feet={ name="Herculean Boots", augments={'STR+14','Magic burst dmg.+4%','Weapon skill damage +7%','Accuracy+15 Attack+15','Mag. Acc.+13 "Mag.Atk.Bns."+13',}},
neck="Fotia Gorget",
waist="Fotia Belt",
left_ear="Sherida Earring",
right_ear={ name="Moonshade Earring", augments={'Attack+4','TP Bonus +25',}},
left_ring="Epona's Ring",
right_ring="Niqmaddu Ring",
back={ name="Ogma's cape", augments={'STR+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','STR+10','"Dbl.Atk."+10',}},}
 Cerberus.Mrkillface
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By Cerberus.Mrkillface 2017-12-06 10:53:42
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It's also worth noting that neither of these HQ head options have much ACC. Even with Raetic Algol, you can still miss a lot of extra Reso hits on stuff like t4s unless you have 1 hr topor and bard songs up.

So ACC might also be something worth looking into as far as reasons why you aren't hitting the numbers in the spreadsheet.

In this set I'm sitting at about 1100 ACC in my mog house.

ItemSet 355062

There's some ACC to be gained by using the HQ pieces, but it's still pretty low all things considered. To give some context, I have about 100 more acc in my WAR Reso set and while my melee ACC may be capped, my reso ACC can still benefit from ACC buffs at times.
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By Afania 2017-12-06 11:45:14
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Cerberus.Mrkillface said: »
It's also worth noting that neither of these HQ head options have much ACC. Even with Raetic Algol, you can still miss a lot of extra Reso hits on stuff like t4s unless you have 1 hr topor and bard songs up.

So ACC might also be something worth looking into as far as reasons why you aren't hitting the numbers in the spreadsheet.

In this set I'm sitting at about 1100 ACC in my mog house.

ItemSet 355062

There's some ACC to be gained by using the HQ pieces, but it's still pretty low all things considered. To give some context, I have about 100 more acc in my WAR Reso set and while my melee ACC may be capped, my reso ACC can still benefit from ACC buffs at times.


Yeah, that's one of the reason why I find it often hard to win parse against real DDs(WAR SAM DRK etc) outside of Escha. And I can't seem to find a way to solve this problem.

If I WS in adhemar, the acc would be low. If I look for herc augments, I'd need to get STR, acc AND multi attack which is kinda tough. Usually my dps goes way low unless all 3 support jobs (cor brd geo) are available. Unfortunately, RUN doesn't have an easy solution like Argosy I think,
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By Asura.Pergatory 2017-12-06 12:31:35
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I see lots of talk about attack not being capped, but what about acc? Doesn't the adhemar gear leave you lacking in accuracy for Reso when not fully buffed? That's the main reason I'm still using STR-augmented Herc gear.

My Herc augments aren't great, but right now comparing them to Adhemar+1 path B, if I swapped my 4 Herc pieces for Adhemar+1, I would lose over 80 accuracy. That's just not acceptable because in situations where my RUN would actually be trying to deal damage I tend not to have any buffs outside what I can get from 1-2 trusts.

I think most people these days tend to think in terms of "I've got a GEO and BRD alt that I'm dragging with me so of course I want Adhemar+1" but not everyone has pocket buffers.
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By Afania 2017-12-06 15:50:20
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Asura.Pergatory said: »
I see lots of talk about attack not being capped, but what about acc? Doesn't the adhemar gear leave you lacking in accuracy for Reso when not fully buffed? That's the main reason I'm still using STR-augmented Herc gear.

My Herc augments aren't great, but right now comparing them to Adhemar+1 path B, if I swapped my 4 Herc pieces for Adhemar+1, I would lose over 80 accuracy. That's just not acceptable because in situations where my RUN would actually be trying to deal damage I tend not to have any buffs outside what I can get from 1-2 trusts.

I think most people these days tend to think in terms of "I've got a GEO and BRD alt that I'm dragging with me so of course I want Adhemar+1" but not everyone has pocket buffers.


It does, but for me it's easier to drag a brd because it's harder get 4 augments (STR/acc/attack/MA) right on herc. Adhemar +1 is just a convenience using gears that I already have.

RUN is like my 4th job in terms of gearing priority, and I'm tank 90% of time when I'm on it, so until I finally decide to do swift blade set seriously I probably won't have the gears available.

Otherwise I agree that herc is probably better with the right Aug.
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 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-12-06 16:08:43
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
Maybe your cratio is not capped for both comparisons.

Went back and confirmed with a few more situations, and I can get some cases of Lustratio Cap +1 (with 4% set bonus) barely beating Adhemar+1 with capped cratio (like, when I say barely I'm talking about ~5-10 dmg on WS).

However, Adhemar+1 seems to win easily when not capped, which is not at all uncommon for RUN on high end targets. Even with Idris Frailty/Fury + BRD or COR buffs, unless your GEO is using Bolster/BoG there's a significant (likely?) chance you aren't capping on stuff like Reisenjima T3 or harder. My practical assumption is that on difficult content, most RUNs will be uncapped far more often than capped. But maybe you only care about squeezing out a tiny bit more DPS for all-out zerg situations where you can assume Bolter/BoG - that's more a "what are you using RUN for" question.

Especially considering that Adhemar+1 is also useful for a lot of other things, versus Lustratio+1 being a fairly niche piece that's at best a slight advantage and very often (whenever uncapped) will be worse - that's something each person will have to think about for their situations. Personally, I can't justify dropping ~30mil on a piece that's sometimes a hair better than the sidegrade-ish alternative with lots of alternative TP and WS uses for the jobs I use (my personal RUN situation is that I don't even have a Lionheart and generally use my RUN for defensive purposes, using Epeo and Dimidiation most of the time). Maybe you have other uses for Lustratio+1 or feel that the minor edge for RUN Reso in specific conditions make it a worthwhile investment for you.

By all means, if someone else can better test these and get good comparison data (say, on Austar's simulation), go for it. I'm open to being corrected if someone has convincing data. Like I said, my spreadsheeting was based on a hacked up version of a current SAM spreadsheet (based on Llewelyn's earlier 2017 SAM sheet) - added proper Reso values, some RUN gear, used Lionheart. It's ugly though and maybe someone has a more accurate spreadsheet/sim.

And back to the originally asked question, it seems pretty clear to me that if we take HQ Abjurations out of the picture, the answer is TA+4%/STR Herc (ideally) or NQ Adhemar (if you have no patience for Reisenjima augments).

I'm not saying being uncapped attack isn't a common situation or even disagreeing with how you *** what you use, just that if someone wants to know what is BiS you kind of need to assume attack/accuracy capped situations. Otherwise you can't give any kind of answer that isn't '***is situational'. As pointed out by others already, none of the stats on either Adhemar Bonnet +1 or Lustratio Cap +1 hold much weight compared to a good Herculean Helm if accuracy isn't capped. The flaw is likely in the question itself. Every time someone asks for a BiS without context, it's like asking how long a piece of string is.

Also something seems wrong with the spreadsheet if you're getting results that are that close. I wrote a short bit of python code to calculate the average number of Resolution hits. I used 23% DA from Temper and then the Reso set I posted a few pages back (Using Adhemar Bonnet +1 for s1 instead of Lustratio Cap +1.)
Code
import random


def ws_hits(base_strikes, *mas):
    strikes = base_strikes
    for ma_chance in range(2):
        for i, ma in enumerate(*mas):
            if random.random() <= ma/100.0:
                strikes += 3 - i
                break
    strikes = strikes if strikes <= 8 else 8
    return sum([random.random() <= .95 for strike in range(strikes)])

if __name__ == "__main__":
    s0 = {
        'da': 23 + 3 + 5 + 3 + 10 + 3,
        'ta': 4 + 4 + 3 + 3,
        'qa': 3,
    }
    s1 = {
        'da': 23 + 3 + 5 + 3 + 10,
        'ta': 4 + 4 + 3 + 3 + 4,
        'qa': 3,
    }
    for i, s in enumerate([s0, s1]):
        count = 10000000
        hits = 0
        for n in range(count):
            hits += ws_hits(5, [s['qa'], s['ta'], s['da']])
        print "Set %i mean %f" % (i, float(hits)/count)


The results were as follow
Code
Set 0 mean 6.124104
Set 1 mean 6.177856


This amounts to a 0.88% marginal increase in hits per Resolution when swapping from Lustratio Cap +1 and Adhemar Bonnet +1. The WSC increase from Adhemar Bonnet +1 -> Lustratio Cap +1 is 14~18 depending on whether fSTR is capped. Even if you assume the low end, you would need a WSC of 1600+ in order for the increase in Reso strikes to outweigh the gains in WSC. This also completely ignored WS damage, which might actually be more significant than we think. It seems totally screwed up that they are even close in the spreadsheet, although I only took a few minutes writing this script. Maybe you can report the average hits per WS that it's reporting (if it even reports that.)
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-12-06 16:48:29
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even if they were equal (in this particular situation), pure strength is less variance as well.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2017-12-06 18:20:31
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Fenrir.Snaps said: »
I'm not saying being uncapped attack isn't a common situation or even disagreeing with how you *** what you use, just that if someone wants to know what is BiS you kind of need to assume attack/accuracy capped situations. Otherwise you can't give any kind of answer that isn't '***is situational'.

1) I'm not sure why we have to assume the less likely (capped atk/acc) scenario. If anything, to me it makes more sense to assume uncapped for RUN in a general recommendation that works for most of the player base (though a person who can always count on Idris GEO BoG/Bolster, COR rolls, Honor March, and Dia III on every mob might disagree with me). Still, I understand your opinion here and realize that some people want to assume capped everything for any gear recommendation. So, instead of making an assumption, both uncapped and capped situations were explicitly discussed so no assumption was necessary.

2) Not that it was really relevant for the item comparison we were talking about anyway, since I was finding the recommended piece was significantly ahead when uncapped, and about even when capped (as my and Afania's posts discussed). Again, if there's some better model, by all means I'm open to correction.

Personally, I can't imagine Lustratio Cap+1 being so significantly superior even in fully capped situations that it's worth the recommendation. Although, like nearly all gear recommendations, I'll admit that it's situational - and perhaps it has a little more of an edge in fully capped scenarios than I'm giving it credit for. Feels like we've kinda beat this one into the ground though, and the caveats are all out there so people can make their own decisions.

Afania said: »
Asura.Pergatory said: »
I see lots of talk about attack not being capped, but what about acc? Doesn't the adhemar gear leave you lacking in accuracy for Reso when not fully buffed? That's the main reason I'm still using STR-augmented Herc gear.

My Herc augments aren't great, but right now comparing them to Adhemar+1 path B, if I swapped my 4 Herc pieces for Adhemar+1, I would lose over 80 accuracy. That's just not acceptable because in situations where my RUN would actually be trying to deal damage I tend not to have any buffs outside what I can get from 1-2 trusts.

I think most people these days tend to think in terms of "I've got a GEO and BRD alt that I'm dragging with me so of course I want Adhemar+1" but not everyone has pocket buffers.


It does, but for me it's easier to drag a brd and harder get 4 augments (STR/acc/attack/MA) right on herc. Adhemar +1 is just a convenience using gears that I already have.

RUN is like my 4th job in terms of gearing priority, and I'm tank 90% of time when I'm on it, so until I finally decide to do swift blade set seriously I probably won't have the gears available.

Otherwise I agree that herc is probably better with the right Aug.
Fair enough, Acc is a legitimate concern too. However, it's a little misleading to just assume Herc = better acc than Adhemar+1. Have to look more closely at each slot, and overall set accuracy. To quickly compare slot-by-slot:

Head: Neither Adhemar nor Herculean have base acc, so you will need some luck to manage an appropriate WS Herc piece that also has better Accuracy (in addition to the vital TA+4 and the very good to have STR/atk). This might be a slot where you're willing to just give up some Acc and use Adhemar, but I can agree that for a high acc set you might want to invest the time to get the augmented piece. For a more "budget" baseline set, Adhemar is probably a solid all-around choice though. Practical choice: Adhemar is fine, but maybe worth working on a well augmented Herc.

Body & hands: Adhemar already have relatively good acc that would take very strong Herc augments to beat, with fantastic additional stats (good STR, TA, Atk). While it's conceivable to roll a Herc with even more Acc that would win overall, it's likely gonna take some serious luck/time/stones. Practical choice: Adhemar and save the headache of shooting for near perfect Herculean gear.

Legs: You'd prob usually prefer a different piece anyway over Adhemar or Herc. Honestly, if I'm making a default set, Meghanada+2 with solid STR, a shitton of acc/atk, and TA+5% are a pretty safe option to cover any scenario - they're my default choice. Practical choice: Meghanada+2, maybe perfect Samnuha if you know you're gonna be capped acc/atk.

Feet: Herculean Boots augments that beat non-augmented alternatives and have higher acc probably aren't crazy hard to get, and would be recommended. And besides, a TA+4/Acc Herc is still a top end TP piece for pretty much every job on it including RUN, so you'd prob want it and get some additional use out of it anyway. Practical choice: Herculean.

So yeah, I'd probably adjust Oraen's above "budget" Reso set (excludes HQ Abjurations and Regal Ring) a little bit as follows:
ItemSet 355078
Notes:
* Herc Head with TA+4%/Acc is probably the first place where you could swap in more acc if needed)
* Obviously, where NQ abj are listed, the corresponding HQ would be better.
[+]
 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2017-12-06 18:26:43
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If you need accuracy, Dampening Tam can work as well, but SR gears can be worse than Oseem.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-12-06 18:29:35
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I'd lean towards adhemar on the basis that it's good on other jobs as well (assuming they're that close)
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-12-07 01:20:22
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Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
If you need accuracy, Dampening Tam can work as well, but SR gears can be worse than Oseem.
It's one of those things where if you already have them for whatever reason it's good to use them, otherwise probably not worth to farm them.
As I was saying before, Lilitu Headpiece (perf) is a nice alternative for non-acc, att-uncapped situations.

@Capuchin
I think I kinda agree with your practical/realistical cheap build for Reso.
One thing I was wondering for adding more acc though is swapping Epona's for Regal ring and pairing it with ONE AF+3 piece to get the +15 acc bonus (plus the insane base acc values present on all AF+3 pieces).
AF+3 lacks attack, TA and other DD stats, but its base STR values are okaysh.
Having one AF+3 piece plus Regal Ring would grant you so much Acc that you could probably afford to equip non-acc pieces in another slot (like for example Adhemar/Lilitu in the head slot).

My question though is: which AF+3 piece would grant the lowest loss compared to the other options in the same slot?
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By Asura.Pergatory 2017-12-07 10:11:44
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Blasted Dampening Tam...

I saw one with QA+1 once. I was so insulted I took the 1k bayld instead, but it's still the best I've seen.
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