Endeavoring To Awaken --A Guide To Rune Fencer

Language: JP EN DE FR
New Items
2017-10-15
357 users online
Forum » FFXI » Jobs » Rune Fencer » Endeavoring to Awaken --A Guide to Rune Fencer
Endeavoring to Awaken --A Guide to Rune Fencer
First Page 2 3 ... 118 119 120
 Leviathan.Vedder
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 239
By Leviathan.Vedder 2017-08-08 13:22:59
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Not sure myself but do want for drk as an opening weapon for soloing mobs
 Fenrir.Niflheim
Guildwork Premium
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Tesahade
Posts: 27
By Fenrir.Niflheim 2017-09-03 11:46:39
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Is this formula correct for Vivac Pulse?:
HP Restored = 10 + floor(Divine Skill÷2) + floor(Stat1×0.5) + floor(Stat2×0.5) + floor(Stat3×0.5)

I did some testing for some max return sets and got this:

Flabra AGI 108+115
1 Rune 355
2 Rune 452
3 Rune 549

Flabra AGI 108+142
1 Rune 356
2 Rune 454
3 Rune 552

Divine magic was 414 on both.
So that is 223 vs 250 but only 1 hp per rune was gained. maybe there is a soft cap?
Offline
Posts: 1
By Saberfang 2017-09-07 07:15:32
Link | Quote | Reply
 
If i remember right not all Runes go with the stat you think; believe Flabra goes with VIT and Tellus is AGI.
Offline
By clearlyamule 2017-09-07 10:20:39
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Yeah the stats and elements just go in order not traditional associations. So like Fire > Ice > Wind > Earth > Thunder > Water
STR > DEX > VIT > AGI > INT > MND
 Fenrir.Niflheim
Guildwork Premium
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Tesahade
Posts: 27
By Fenrir.Niflheim 2017-09-18 09:06:03
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ohhhh well derp did not know so element to opposing element stat. Is there a list for that based on saberfang's post if flabra os vit an tellus is agi not dex thats a very screwy wheel
Offline
By clearlyamule 2017-09-18 09:27:48
Link | Quote | Reply
 
It follows the orders of stats and elements as they appear on equipment screen
 Fenrir.Niflheim
Guildwork Premium
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Tesahade
Posts: 27
By Fenrir.Niflheim 2017-09-18 18:55:08
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Thanks for clearing that up :D now i can put my rune specific pulse sets on the right rune ^_^
 Quetzalcoatl.Senaki
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Senaki
Posts: 29
By Quetzalcoatl.Senaki 2017-09-18 19:07:30
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Does anyone happen to now if "Rayke" affects SC damage as well as Magic? I noticed, unlike Gambit, it says "Elemental Resistance". This makes me think that it might help with SCing on certain monsters, such as doing Light SCs on a Elementally Netural monster.
 Fenrir.Niflheim
Guildwork Premium
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Tesahade
Posts: 27
By Fenrir.Niflheim 2017-09-18 19:18:38
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quetzalcoatl.Senaki said: »
Does anyone happen to now if "Rayke" affects SC damage as well as Magic? I noticed, unlike Gambit, it says "Elemental Resistance". This makes me think that it might help with SCing on certain monsters, such as doing Light SCs on a Elementally Netural monster.

Rayke lowers resistance which means that the mob under the effect is more likely to take full damage... but that is 100% damage it does not increase the damage that the magical damage source was going to deal.

Aside from that lvl2, 3 and 4 skill chains are hard to predict which of the possible elements it will be a light skillchain can deal fire, wind, thunder or light magical damage. so performing Rayke or Gambit with the correct element can be hard unless you were to fire with 1 rune of 3 of the 4 elements, even then there is a 1/4 chance you did not apply the correct debuff
Offline
By clearlyamule 2017-09-18 19:22:13
Link | Quote | Reply
 
To what effect are you looking for? Because skillchain damage isn't resistable and an elementally neutral monster isn't going to have an SDT to lower. If you just wanted to force a certain element nin/brd spells would do just fine in that case
 Fenrir.Tarowyn
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Tarowyn
Posts: 423
By Fenrir.Tarowyn 2017-09-18 19:36:06
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Niflheim said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Senaki said: »
Does anyone happen to now if "Rayke" affects SC damage as well as Magic? I noticed, unlike Gambit, it says "Elemental Resistance". This makes me think that it might help with SCing on certain monsters, such as doing Light SCs on a Elementally Netural monster.

Rayke lowers resistance which means that the mob under the effect is more likely to take full damage... but that is 100% damage it does not increase the damage that the magical damage source was going to deal.

Aside from that lvl2, 3 and 4 skill chains are hard to predict which of the possible elements it will be a light skillchain can deal fire, wind, thunder or light magical damage. so performing Rayke or Gambit with the correct element can be hard unless you were to fire with 1 rune of 3 of the 4 elements, even then there is a 1/4 chance you did not apply the correct debuff

That's not quite true actually, MB and SC dmg bonus is actually tiered based on resistance level, so if the enemy isn't already at the highest tier, it can cause an increase in damage.

As for which element, it selects whichever element the mob is least resistant too so it's generally not too hard to figure out. Though NM's can be weird sometimes, hehe.
Offline
By clearlyamule 2017-09-18 19:49:51
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Tarowyn said: »
Fenrir.Niflheim said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Senaki said: »
Does anyone happen to now if "Rayke" affects SC damage as well as Magic? I noticed, unlike Gambit, it says "Elemental Resistance". This makes me think that it might help with SCing on certain monsters, such as doing Light SCs on a Elementally Netural monster.

Rayke lowers resistance which means that the mob under the effect is more likely to take full damage... but that is 100% damage it does not increase the damage that the magical damage source was going to deal.

Aside from that lvl2, 3 and 4 skill chains are hard to predict which of the possible elements it will be a light skillchain can deal fire, wind, thunder or light magical damage. so performing Rayke or Gambit with the correct element can be hard unless you were to fire with 1 rune of 3 of the 4 elements, even then there is a 1/4 chance you did not apply the correct debuff

That's not quite true actually, MB and SC dmg bonus is actually tiered based on resistance level, so if the enemy isn't already at the highest tier, it can cause an increase in damage.

As for which element, it selects whichever element the mob is least resistant too so it's generally not too hard to figure out. Though NM's can be weird sometimes, hehe.
Resistance doesn't tier dmg it gives a chance to resist. NMs awhile back gained something else that if you nuked it or did magical wss within a short time period (~5-6 seconds) that there would be a direct reduction given to the dmg separate from resist (note it even applies when doing old old content that you are super over capping on) that Rayke can help with. Of course this info isn't on the wikis for some reason so I'll have to dig around old OF posts to find out what all was including in that update

Skillchains have some weird ilvl/resitance factor now but going back to the testing doesn't look like testing was finished

Edit: Found it Though mind you this was back when skillchains were still subject to resist checks so I suppose it's possible they ninja added it back then but haven't really seen any testing on it
 Siren.Kyte
Offline
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2251
By Siren.Kyte 2017-09-18 19:55:45
Link | Quote | Reply
 
It also follows a priority system if resistances are equal (ex: a Light SC will deal fire damage on a neutral target).
 Fenrir.Niflheim
Guildwork Premium
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Tesahade
Posts: 27
By Fenrir.Niflheim 2017-09-18 19:55:46
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Tarowyn said: »
Fenrir.Niflheim said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Senaki said: »
Does anyone happen to now if "Rayke" affects SC damage as well as Magic? I noticed, unlike Gambit, it says "Elemental Resistance". This makes me think that it might help with SCing on certain monsters, such as doing Light SCs on a Elementally Netural monster.

Rayke lowers resistance which means that the mob under the effect is more likely to take full damage... but that is 100% damage it does not increase the damage that the magical damage source was going to deal.

Aside from that lvl2, 3 and 4 skill chains are hard to predict which of the possible elements it will be a light skillchain can deal fire, wind, thunder or light magical damage. so performing Rayke or Gambit with the correct element can be hard unless you were to fire with 1 rune of 3 of the 4 elements, even then there is a 1/4 chance you did not apply the correct debuff

That's not quite true actually, MB and SC dmg bonus is actually tiered based on resistance level, so if the enemy isn't already at the highest tier, it can cause an increase in damage.

As for which element, it selects whichever element the mob is least resistant too so it's generally not too hard to figure out. Though NM's can be weird sometimes, hehe.

I did not know that the dmg bonus worked like that interesting. your refering to this equation

Skillchain damage = ( Closing Damage × (Skillchain Level/Number from Table) × (1 + Skillchain Bonus÷100) + Magic Damage ) × (1 + Skillchain Damage+%/100) × (1 + Day/Weather bonuses) × (1 + Staff Affinity) × (Monster magic damage reductions) × (iLevel/Resistance Damage Bonus)
Example: A character is doing a level 1 skillchain with two Weapon Skills, 30 Skillchain Bonus, +5% Skillchain Damage, and no relevant day/weather/affinity, and is a much higher iLevel than the monster / the monster is weak to the skillchain's element. The closing damage is 500.
511 = floor( ( 500 × 0.5 × 1.3 + 0 ) × 1.05 × 1 × 1 × 1 × 1 × 1.5)

From
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Skillchain#Skillchain_Damage
 Fenrir.Tarowyn
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Tarowyn
Posts: 423
By Fenrir.Tarowyn 2017-09-18 20:03:37
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Looks right, though I'm not sure if iLvl actually has anything to do with it. 1.5 is the highest tier so if you're already getting that, rayke won't increase dmg any more.
 Fenrir.Tarowyn
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Tarowyn
Posts: 423
By Fenrir.Tarowyn 2017-09-18 20:07:30
Link | Quote | Reply
 
clearlyamule said: »
Resistance doesn't tier dmg it gives a chance to resist. NMs awhile back gained something else that if you nuked it or did magical wss within a short time period (~5-6 seconds) that there would be a direct reduction given to the dmg separate from resist (note it even applies when doing old old content that you are super over capping on) that Rayke can help with. Of course this info isn't on the wikis for some reason so I'll have to dig around old OF posts to find out what all was including in that update

Skillchains have some weird ilvl/resitance factor now but going back to the testing doesn't look like testing was finished

Edit: Found it Though mind you this was back when skillchains were still subject to resist checks so I suppose it's possible they ninja added it back then but haven't really seen any testing on it

This is a JP site of dmg for most monster families showing the tiers and actual numbers for each element. I know about the cumulative dmg thing, we're talking about SC's atm moment so that doesn't even apply.

Note, these are tiers for SC and MB dmg bonus per element, it's not about straight resist.

https://www53.atwiki.jp/bartlett3/pages/313.html
Offline
By clearlyamule 2017-09-18 20:14:27
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Tarowyn said: »
clearlyamule said: »
Resistance doesn't tier dmg it gives a chance to resist. NMs awhile back gained something else that if you nuked it or did magical wss within a short time period (~5-6 seconds) that there would be a direct reduction given to the dmg separate from resist (note it even applies when doing old old content that you are super over capping on) that Rayke can help with. Of course this info isn't on the wikis for some reason so I'll have to dig around old OF posts to find out what all was including in that update

Skillchains have some weird ilvl/resitance factor now but going back to the testing doesn't look like testing was finished

Edit: Found it Though mind you this was back when skillchains were still subject to resist checks so I suppose it's possible they ninja added it back then but haven't really seen any testing on it

This is a JP site of dmg for most monster families showing the tiers and actual numbers for each element. I know about the cumulative dmg thing, we're talking about SC's atm moment so that doesn't even apply.

Note, these are tiers for SC and MB dmg bonus per element, it's not about straight resist.

https://www53.atwiki.jp/bartlett3/pages/313.html
Ah well when you mixed MB and sc thought you might be going there since SE hadn't talked about that and hadn't heard otherwise. Idk I'll have to take more time to go thru it since in jp and all because never even heard of there being tiers like that for MB dmg at all. None of the English testing every showed that and wasn't aware of jp testing

Edit: god gt is terrible for this but I think it's only talking about skillchains here
 Fenrir.Tarowyn
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Tarowyn
Posts: 423
By Fenrir.Tarowyn 2017-09-18 20:27:51
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Yeah, I dunno if GT's gonna be able to handle a page like this... There's too much shorthand/FFXI only language, lol.

The gist of it is just that MB/SC dmg get a multipler based on the element.

You can say, cast water on a low level crab and you won't get resists because of the level diff, but reverb will do a smaller % of dmg than impaction regardless of lvl.

The numbers for each family go like

[MDT] | [MDB]

Elemental dmg color coded for your convenience.
Offline
By clearlyamule 2017-09-18 20:46:16
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Yeah trying to go thru the mumbo jumbo a bit. Some was really weird like talking about how 50% would be lower but 60% would be full lol.

They seem to mostly focus on skillchains and a little bit about how you drop tiers during the mb window which in turn can effect how much dmg the next one does and what element. The tiny blurb on MB themselves almost sounds like was allowing you to overcome actual sdts but not sure. And apparently subtle sorcery allowing it too.

Could use a full real translation onto the English side for all the exact technicals could be pretty huge if true and it does seem to kind of go with what Montenten had started testing on new skillchain mechanics. Damn jps and all their testing we never see
 Fenrir.Tarowyn
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Tarowyn
Posts: 423
By Fenrir.Tarowyn 2017-09-18 21:01:48
Link | Quote | Reply
 
The line about 50% and 60% is about 50% being the point where you're guaranteed to get at least a half resist. So if you do something to raise the tier from 50%->60% you'll be able to get full dmg.

The information pretty much applies to both SC and MB except that the MB window causes the tier to jump a lvl as you mentioned.

It's not really all that complicated. I don't really wanna translate the whole thing but if you have any specific questions I can answer, lol. Both the SC and MB dmg calculations on bgwiki include spots for these numbers, it's just this guy (I think it was one guy), just decided to go and try and actually catalog every monster's element, lol.
Offline
By clearlyamule 2017-09-18 21:51:25
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Tarowyn said: »
The line about 50% and 60% is about 50% being the point where you're guaranteed to get at least a half resist. So if you do something to raise the tier from 50%->60% you'll be able to get full dmg.

The information pretty much applies to both SC and MB except that the MB window causes the tier to jump a lvl as you mentioned.

It's not really all that complicated. I don't really wanna translate the whole thing but if you have any specific questions I can answer, lol. Both the SC and MB dmg calculations on bgwiki include spots for these numbers, it's just this guy (I think it was one guy), just decided to go and try and actually catalog every monster's element, lol
Yeah see that's the part I don't get. Like I know what that means but how the *** does that work with the rest. Like that sounds like it's talking about actual resistance or maybe SDT since normally you can't guarantee a half resist per se outside of weird stuff you shouldn't be landing anyways (ie using stymie on something that otherwise wouldn't land) vice the different dmg multipliers elsewhere

Kind of why I would like a full translation to parse over because looking over google stuff makes it seem like it's going here there and everywhere with what it's talking about so it's hard to digest it as a whole to see what to have questions about. And wiki had orders based on regular resistances so things like nin/brd spells would effect while something like Rayke shouldn't... but that was old during resist times so now it seems like it's based some elemental dmg multiplier similar to sdt but only during the MB window or something instead... and well wiki doesn't have anything even hinting this for MBs themselves. So would be nice to be able to have something concise to add
 Fenrir.Tarowyn
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Tarowyn
Posts: 423
By Fenrir.Tarowyn 2017-09-18 22:18:15
Link | Quote | Reply
 
That line is talking about actual resists. If a mob is listed on that website as having 50% or less than it's guaranteed to at least get a half resist. The example they give is sahagins, they don't have any sort of SDT but their water resist is at the 50% tier so no matter how low level a sahagin you get, you won't be able to get a full dmg water to hit on it. But if you Rayke it first, you'll be able to get a full dmg hit.

BGwiki has one thing which was on the right track but probably didn't fully explore it.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Magic_Damage#Species_Damage_Taken

I can translate the whole thing I guess, it'll take me a bit to put it into good english, lol.
Offline
By clearlyamule 2017-09-18 22:29:39
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Tarowyn said: »
That line is talking about actual resists. If a mob is listed on that website as having 50% or less than it's guaranteed to at least get a half resist. The example they give is sahagins, they don't have any sort of SDT but their water resist is at the 50% tier so no matter how low level a sahagin you get, you won't be able to get a full dmg water to hit on it. But if you Rayke it first, you'll be able to get a full dmg hit.

BGwiki has one thing which was on the right track but probably didn't fully explore it.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Magic_Damage#Species_Damage_Taken

I can translate the whole thing I guess, it'll take me a bit to put it into good english, lol.
Now I'm really confused because SDT stands for species damage taken... which is separate from resist proc so you can still get a full resist on top of that. And some mobs even have higher levels like 75% or at least jugs can do the 75% though looking at my notes the jugs I had that high their corresponding regular mobs weren't
 Fenrir.Tarowyn
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Tarowyn
Posts: 423
By Fenrir.Tarowyn 2017-09-18 22:47:56
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ah ok, I thought you were abbreviation spell damage taken or something, lol.

Some species have a MDT reduction, that's probably what you're talking about with the jugs.

If you look here, you'll see 被魔法ダメージ - 50% which says Magic damage taken -50%. That's separate from resist and the elemental resistance multiplier, sorry if I confused you.

https://www53.atwiki.jp/bartlett3/pages/320.html#02
 Fenrir.Tarowyn
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Tarowyn
Posts: 423
By Fenrir.Tarowyn 2017-09-18 23:25:19
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ok done, putting it behind a spoiler since it's long, lol.
[+]
 Quetzalcoatl.Senaki
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Senaki
Posts: 29
By Quetzalcoatl.Senaki 2017-09-19 16:00:07
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Tarowyn said: »
Ok done, putting it behind a spoiler since it's long, lol.


Nice, thank you so much for the information! :D
Offline
By clearlyamule 2017-09-20 12:00:58
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Tarowyn said: »
Ah ok, I thought you were abbreviation spell damage taken or something, lol.

Some species have a MDT reduction, that's probably what you're talking about with the jugs.

If you look here, you'll see 被魔法ダメージ - 50% which says Magic damage taken -50%. That's separate from resist and the elemental resistance multiplier, sorry if I confused you.

https://www53.atwiki.jp/bartlett3/pages/320.html#02
Lol spell damage taken isn't even a thing though. But yeah definitely meant species Jugs are kind of not exactly like monsters though and few actually have mdt (like I think only frog does innately) and sdts might be a little different. It seems something about terms are being comingled a little because well new ***is new but similar. I'll have to read your full translation though to be sure (and supplementary testing) but it does seem like they are talking about what we've always known as species dmg but that it has thresholds on when it is applied or not that can be now be modified.

Edit: yeah it's talking about 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 resist for that part when regular resists are only supposed to go to 1/8 so basically what we called sdt separate from resist

Fenrir.Tarowyn said: »
Ok done, putting it behind a spoiler since it's long, lol.

Thank you for that. Will try parsing this better when I have a chance.

Seems like they are basically mixing 3 terms together and lumping it into resistance. The thing we normally think of resistance as in the chance to hit certain resist states depending on spells full land 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 for nukes full land 1/2 and full resist for static duration debuffs and who the *** knows what for weird things. What we have always called sdt and has historically been static unchangeable part of mobs makeup (outside of rayke). And this newish term that well hasn't been named yet. I want to call it elemental alignment that basically is what determines if the mob has sdt, skillchain priority similar to how actual elemental resistance as seen on the equipment menu used to be the factor and gives a direct multiplier to skillchain dmg.

Also seems like the MB part (and similar subtle sorcery itself) of it isn't a dmg modifier like skillchains are but just for the sdt check. Wonder if it does that for non skillchain and non MB sources of magical dmg during the window. Like will a liquefaction skillchain ensure your wildfire.
 Fenrir.Tarowyn
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Tarowyn
Posts: 423
By Fenrir.Tarowyn 2017-09-23 12:51:13
Link | Quote | Reply
 
There's too many abbreviations, I lose track, lol.

I dunno, I think it's just easier to think of it as a function of their elemental resistance than to have another term, especially when sdt will always be 50%. I dunno how many mobs in the wiki even have a listing for sdt.
It's really just a matter of preference I guess. In the end it means the same thing, stuff under that resistance threshold takes 1/2~1/16 of regular dmg whether that's 1/2~1/16 resists or full dmg~1/8 resist divided in half.

They as in the web site? In the japanese there's completely different words for resists and the... I think I called it elemental resistance rank. I tried to make it clear when they were talking about each but dunno if that came across.

MB actually also gets a dmg bonus based upon the rank, but it changes at different intervals. You can see a picture of it here, MB dmg multiplier is the bottom row.

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/luteff11/imgs/e/b/eb58ab1e.png

As for the last part, only thing I think of that you could check that with would be blu spells... tenebral crush would probably be ideal since there's so many dark resistant mobs. I'd suspect something like wildfire would immediately cancel the MB window since it breaks the skillchain but who knows, lol.
Offline
By clearlyamule 2017-10-06 12:37:19
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Lol didn't see you responded.

I suppose it is somewhat semantics... however I think it kind of helps reinforce that it's a completely extra resist state. Like normally without SDT the highest resist would be 1/8 for nukes and well full for debuffs but the highest partial would be 1/2 while SDT gives another 1/2 to both those. Also an addendum but some preliminary testing is showing that it doesn't apply to all enfeebles. So far it seems only the ones with resist traits/capable of immunobreak. Theories of how or why are up in the air though on why

Well I meant your translation since GT is terrible to read it with lol.

Hmmm MB dmg modification I'll have to look into that too. Is there words to go along with that? Or at the very least did they try elementally aligned non MB dmg or things that don't get dmg boost from MB?

Oh yeah blu spells. The example above shows that a second skillchain is effected by the first so I'd assume the ws that made that skillchain would too but huzzah to more testing
First Page 2 3 ... 118 119 120
Log in to post.