Overall Battle System Adjustments For The Future
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Overall Battle System Adjustments for the Future
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 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2013-01-11 16:07:55
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01-11-2013 03:58 PM
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Akihiko Matsui
Dev Team

Overall Battle System Adjustments for the Future

Hello.

Thank you for the vast amount of feedback regarding battle.

We’ve received a variety of different adjustment suggestions and amongst them a suggestion for enfeebling. However, instead of thinking about this in terms of individual points, I’ve been reading over everything from the viewpoint of battle overall.

Towards the end of last year I made a series of posts about the plans we have; however, this raised the issue of requests for more specific, concrete details, which in turn made it difficult for all of you to hold discussions. With that said, from an overall battle system perspective, I would like to share a couple of ideas the development team is currently thinking about.

Please note that all of these ideas have not been finalized. Also, please know that the below is not the entirety of the overall battle adjustments.

We’d appreciate it greatly if you took the content listed here to not represent the cure-all solution, and see it more as things we will be doing while working to solve the issues.

Balance between two-handed and single-handed weapons

This is a topic that has been discussed in several threads, particularly one about making adjustments to single-handed weapons, and we would like to perform adjustments.

As has been mentioned, food and other choices are quite limited due to the fact that status modifiers are far greater for two-handed weapons and there is a higher need for accuracy when using single-handed weapons.

For example, we are currently looking into the possibility of adding some form of merit that would enhance the modifiers for the single-handed weapon main weapon slot.

Regarding Dark Knight

This is a topic that has been discussed in several threads, particularly one about dark knight being too powerful. As was commented during VanaFest, we feel dark knight is becoming powerful, and at the same time decided to put off the adjustments we had looked into at that time. I believe there are many who remember this.
We are currently looking to adjust Desperate Blows and Last Resort.

Currently, the haste cap for equipment and magic is the same for all jobs, but haste from abilities is a separate category outside of this cap, and Desperate Blows is the ability with the highest value of haste.
However, simply reducing the value of Desperate Blows would only cause dark knight to become weaker, so we are considering giving a portion of the total haste effect granted from Desperate Blows to Last Resort, and giving the remaining amount back to Desperate Blows.

  • Current

    • Desperate Blows +25%

  • Post-adjustment

    • Desperate Blows +10% (*Value with 5 merit points)
    • Last Resort +15%


Simply put, this adjustment will allow you to gain this effect in the case you use dark knight as your support job.

While currently, it might be difficult to imagine the situations where a front-line job would select dark knight for their support job, we would like to look into this based on this possibility.

Regarding Defense

This is a topic that we have received feedback on asking to increase the boons of defense. Due to the attack/defense ratio, the meaning behind adding defense past a certain value starts to become pointless, and we would like to make it have meaning.

As a merit, for example, the more you increase your defense, the lower the damage taken will be and the boons for Defender would become large.

On the other hand, while under the effects of abilities that decrease defense such as Berserk or Last Resort, the damage you take would become higher than what it is currently.

Merit Point Weapon Skills

This is a topic we have seen in threads asking to increase the cap on the merit point weapon skill category.
Instead of adjusting the cap value, we are currently looking into adjusting the modifier values so that these weapon skills can be used with a single merit point.

We are envisioning to make it so 1 merit point will yield a 65% status modifier, and each point afterwards will grant an addition 5% for a maximum of 85% (no changes to the max value).

Elemental Magic

We have received a variety of feedback on elemental magic.
The first thing I’m thinking of doing is making adjustments to the damage calculations.

Here’s my current image of how elemental magic is going to work:
The damage output on earth element spells will initially be lower compared to the rest of the elements, but have the best cost performance overall. Also, INT will have an even larger impact on the damage output. As a result, players will basically try to raise their INT and magic attack to get closer to the damage output done by lightning element spells.

  • Breakdown by element

    • MP Efficiency: Earth > Water > Wind > Fire > Ice > Lightning
    • INT Offset: Earth > Water > Wind > Fire > Ice > Lightning
    • Initial Damage Output: Lightning > Ice > Fire > Wind > Water > Earth
    • Maximum Damage Output: Lightning > Ice > Fire > Wind > Water > Earth

  • Breakdown by spell tier

    • MP Efficiency: I > II > III > IV > V
    • INT Offset: V > IV > III > II > I
    • Initial Damage Output: V > IV > III > II > I
    • Maximum Damage Output: V > IV > III > II > I


The charts below explain my idea in detail.
* The magic attack does not include any offsets.
* “INT+0” and “INT+100” represents the INT difference between the caster and the target.

Tier I INT+0 INT+100
Before After Before After
Earth 10 10 42 160
Water 16 25 66 165
Wind 25 40 92 170
Fire 35 55 108 175
Ice 46 70 126 180
Lightning 60 85 149 185
Tier II INT+0 INT+100
Before After Before After
Earth 78 100 175 350
Water 95 120 195 355
Wind 113 140 213 360
Fire 133 160 233 365
Ice 155 180 255 370
Lightning 178 200 278 375
Tier III INT+0 INT+100
Before After Before After
Earth 210
200
 360 550
Water 236
230
 386 560
Wind 265
260
 415 570
Fire 295
290
 445 580
Ice 320 320 470 590
Lightning 345 350 495 600
Tier IV INT+0 INT+100
Before After Before After
Earth 381 400 581 850
Water 410 440 610 865
Wind 440 480 640 880
Fire 472 520 672 895
Ice 506 560 706 910
Lightning 541 600 741 925
Tier V INT+0 INT+100
Before After Before After
Earth 626 650 855 1200
Water 680 700 909 1220
Wind 734 750 967 1240
Fire 785 800 1014 1260
Ice 829 850 1058 1280
Lightning 874 900 1103 1300

As far as casting time and recast time goes, here’s my current idea:
- Tier I~V spells will all have same casting time / recast time.
For example, Tier I spells will have a casting time of 0.5 seconds and recast time of 2 seconds. Therefore, both Thunder I and Stone I will have the casting time of 0.5 seconds and recast time of 2 seconds.

The charts below explain my idea in detail.

Tier I MP Cost Casting Time Recast Time
Before After Before After Before After
Earth 9 4 1.5 0.5 6.5 2
Water 13 10 1.75 0.5 7.75 2
Wind 18 16 2 0.5 9 2
Fire 24 22 2.25 0.5 10.25 2
Ice 30 28 2.5 0.5 11.5 2
Lightning 37 34 3 0.5 13 2
Tier II MP Cost Casting Time Recast Time
Before After Before After Before After
Earth 43 36 3.25 1.5 14.5 6
Water 51 43 3.5 1.5 15.75 6
Wind 59 51 3.75 1.5 17 6
Fire 68 60 4.25 1.5 18.5 6
Ice 77 68 4.5 1.5 19.75 6
Lightning 86 77 4.75 1.5 21 6
Tier III MP Cost Casting Time Recast Time
Before After Before After Before After
Earth 92 64 5.25 3 22.5 15
Water 98 75 5.5 3 24 15
Wind 106 88 5.75 3 25.25 15
Fire 113 101 6 3 26.5 15
Ice 120 115 6.25 3 27.75 15
Lightning 128
129
 6.75 3 29.25 15
Tier IV MP Cost Casting Time Recast Time
Before After Before After Before After
Earth 138 112 7 6 30.75 30
Water 144 129 7.25 6 32 30
Wind 150 148 7.5 6 33.25 30
Fire 157
169
 8 6 34.75 30
Ice 164
190
 8.25 6 36 30
Lightning 171
213
 8.5 6 37.25 30
Tier V MP Cost Casting Time Recast Time
Before After Before After Before After
Earth 222 156 8.75
10
 39
45
Water 239 182 9.25
10
 40.25
45
Wind 255 210 9.5
10
 41.5
45
Fire 270 240 9.75
10
 42.75
45
Ice 282 272 10 10 44
45
Lightning 294
306
 10.25 10 45.5 45

Please note that we will be making additional adjustments on elemental magic using this change as the foundation.

Regarding Content

To start off, we are looking into adjustments for new Nyzul, Legion, Odin's Chamber II, Voidwatch (up to Provenance Watcher), Salvage, and in the event there is further necessity, new Salvage as well.

Below is what we are looking into for adjustments.

  • New Nyzul

    • Adjustments to the warp range of floors

  • Legion

    • Adjustments to monster levels
    • Adjustments to attack power and defense

  • Odin's Chamber II

    • Adjustments to monster levels

  • Voidwatch

    • Expand the usage range of the void clusters to Provenance (Provenance Watcher)

  • Salvage

    • Re-examine the drop rate of level 35 equipment
    • Make a change so that monsters other than the NMs that spawn from ramparts in Bhaflau Remnants drop the same equipment

  • Walk of Echoes

    • Adjustments to monster levels
    • Remove EX status from each type of coin
    • Add sacks that contain multiple Trick Dice and Liminal Residue


Past this, we will continue to make adjustments as necessary, and we will be making it so strategy and play style variations can be developed instead of having to win with a huge amount of fire power in a short amount of time.

While I am repeating myself, the above are by no means finalized. There are many other topics we are looking into at the moment (enmity, TP given to enemies, etc.), so I would appreciate it if you could read over all of this on the basis that there is a possibility that the implementation order and adjustment method changes.

Thank you very much.
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01-16-2013 08:09 AM
[BG source] [JP source]
Slycer
BG Translator

Hello!

Thanks for your feedback.

We've taken a look at the feedback we've received about the possible adjustments and we'd like to address a few of the questions that have been raised.

Even though the proposal mentions that the adjustment is specifically for DRK, assuming the Haste from Last Resort will apply to one-handed weapons, I think the combination of the one-handed weapon correction you mention in the post plus strengthening Last Resort will be enoug for one-handed weapons to catch up with two-handed weapons.

Hold on a minute...because of Dual Wield I have close to 80% delay reduction... does this mean I can cut some of the Dual Wield for one-handed weapons?

The Haste effect planned to be granted to Last Resort will, along with that of Desperate Blows, only be applicable to two-handed weapons. The overlap of the effects would be too significant if the delay reduction applied to one-handed weapons (because of Dual Wield) or to hand-to-hand weapons (because of Martial Arts).

I'm afraid that adjustments to hand-to-hand weapons are going to get lost in the mix between one-handed and two-handed adjustments.

In the adjustments regarding balancing one-handed and two-handed melee weapons, hand-to-hand weapons will also be included and considered along with one-handed weapons.

However, since the performance of one-handed and hand-to-hand weapons differ significantly, they won't be treated uniformly (for example, the adjustment of "increasing the correction value of the one-handed weapon in the main weapon slot" which was talked about previously will be significantly different for hand-to-hand weapons).

Considering the unique circumstances around hand-to-hand, we will continue to make the adjustments separately.

Regarding elemental magic, would this also hold true for magic casted by automatons?

The elemental magic adjustment does also apply to magic used by the automaton. [[edited:]] While stats can be raised on the automaton, it's easy to Overload while doing so, and we will take this into account when we look at the balance of the adjustment.

Translated by: Slycer
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01-18-2013 10:39 AM
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Slycer
BG Translator

Defense (Attack/Defense Ratio)

Regarding the contents of the post above [[Matsui's original post]], we are considering adjustments to the attack/defense ratio as follows.

At very low defense, damage taken does not increase.

At present, there is an upper limit on the offense/defense ratio.

Depending on the opponent's attack value, if the player's defense value is 50% or higher, the damage reduction will increase. If the player's defense value is less than 50%, the damage reduction will be the same as if it was 50%.

Because of this, even though combining Last Resort and Berserk greatly reduces defense, for example, the damage reduction does not fall as significantly.

----New Proposal

The maximum reduction will be calculated from the attack/defense ratio, and the upper limit of the calculated ratio will be increased such that when defense is very low, damage taken will continue to increase.

When defense is raised, damage taken is not reduced

This is mainly against higher level enemies and occurs because of something called level difference correction. The attack/defense ratio is calculated and impacted by each one level difference, reducing the calculated defensive power by some extent.

----New Proposals

  1. For new monsters created, starting with Seekers of Adoulin, create them such that the level difference correction will not apply. We would compensate for this by adjusting monsters' attack values, defense values, and stats.

  2. Eliminate level difference correction. By eliminating the level difference correction, you will be able to more significantly reduce damage taken by increasing defense as expected.



The text above was what I was able to confirm directly with the person in charge of the team discussion. The information included has not been finalized.

Since this post is about content in development, the information is not confirmed and information included may change. It is possible that there is a lack of information or clarity, or errors included, and, if so, the content will be edited at a later date.

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding.

Translated by: Slycer
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01-18-2013 10:51 AM
[BG source]
Slycer
BG Translator

Content Adjustments

Regarding the contents of the post above [[Matsui's original post]], we are considering adjustments as follows.

New Nyzul

The reasoning behind using Embrava is to greatly increase the speed of defeating enemies. Rather than adjusting the random warp pattern any further, we have decided to modify the strength of enemies.

  • Defense Adjustment
    For enemies with certain weaknesses, allow attacks against those weaknesses to do further increased damage.

  • Level Adjustment (further adjustments may be needed)

    • Floors 1~20: Reduce enemy levels by 10
    • Floors 21~40: Reduce enemy levels by 7
    • Floors 41~60: Reduce enemy levels by 4
    • Floors 61~80: Reduce enemy levels by 2
    • Floors 80~100: No change


Legion

Adjustment of HP, defense, and attack strength.

As mentioned previously, we are considering eliminating the level difference correction values for the attack/defense ratio. If we move in this direction, adjusting the level of the monsters at the same time will make the monsters that appear too weak, so we would not adjust their levels. We are still considering HP adjustments along with the attack/defense adjustments.

Odin's Chamber II

Adjustment of HP, defense, and attack strength.

Similarly to Legion, if we adjust the attack/defense ratio by eliminating level correction and level at the same time, the monsters would become too weak, so we would not adjust their levels. We are still considering HP adjustments along with the attack/defense adjustments.


The text above was what I was able to confirm directly with the person in charge of the team discussion. The information included has not been finalized.

Since this post is about content in development, the information is not confirmed and information included may change. It is possible that there is a lack of information or clarity, or errors included, and, if so, the content will be edited at a later date.

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding.

Translated by: Slycer
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Long post, just going to link to it.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2013-01-11 16:12:12
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Just skimmed most of it, but looks like stuff is finally turning around.
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 Sylph.Trebiont
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By Sylph.Trebiont 2013-01-11 16:15:55
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Still think they whiffed on the merit point ws adjustments.
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 Bahamut.Jaggerjack
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By Bahamut.Jaggerjack 2013-01-11 16:26:03
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nice 1 hand adjustment!
 Leviathan.Kincard
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By Leviathan.Kincard 2013-01-11 16:27:24
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Quote:
Still think they whiffed on the merit point ws adjustments.

Them completely removing merit caps is not going to happen (at least not anytime soon), I prefer the change they're doing over the alternative of them making max merits in WS 20 or 25 or whatever, because now I can have 7 2/5 WSs and have them all be useful, or some other more flexible combination that suits my playstyle and what jobs I actually switch to.

If we could have both, that'd be even better, of course, but between the two this change is actually a lot better.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-01-11 16:29:46
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Grr... talk about enmity already. That change would be the single most significant change in recent history.
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 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2013-01-11 16:31:10
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Grr... talk about enmity already. That change would be the single most significant change in recent history.
I think that will be a much more complicated system to fix, but he's working on it.

Quote:
While I am repeating myself, the above are by no means finalized. There are many other topics we are looking into at the moment (enmity, TP given to enemies, etc.), so I would appreciate it if you could read over all of this on the basis that there is a possibility that the implementation order and adjustment method changes.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-01-11 16:33:12
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Agreed.

The viability of this new magical auto-attack reality hinges on being able to actually do it without dying painfully from hitting the enmity cap and being chewed up by the target monster when it goes bouncing around from everyone being enmity capped.

Making /DRK more attractive also again hinges on losing defenses from things like /SAM for gains that are limited by your enmity.

SE has stated they want to get away from pure zerg encounters where all that matters is offense but that means providing a new enmity system in place where other forms of play can be facilitated.
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 Bismarck.Helel
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By Bismarck.Helel 2013-01-11 16:34:36
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Kraken club RNG/DRK go.

Seriously pumped about the 1-hand adjustments though.

Void clusters for provenance seem somewhat pointless. The problem is the amount of time it takes to farm KI, not killing the actual mobs... They need to lower cruor cost for the KI so we don't have to clear the 3 caturae fights over and over and over.
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 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-01-11 16:35:31
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I really don't remember the last time Seigan saved my ***.
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 Cerberus.Taint
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By Cerberus.Taint 2013-01-11 16:36:46
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Cerberus.Tikal said: »
I really don't remember the last time Seigan saved my ***.


I still pop it from time to time. Like before Kai during Odin2, so he get get a lucky melee swing instantly before or after.
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 Leviathan.Draylo
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By Leviathan.Draylo 2013-01-11 16:37:51
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Very nice adjustments, FFXI is coming back strong!
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 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-01-11 16:39:14
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Oh yeah, I still pop it... I just don't remember the last time I thought to myself "If I hadn't gone to Seigan..."

Used to happen a lot of the time. With how high-tier VW and Legion are though, I can't fathom it making a difference often.
 Ragnarok.Masamonae
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By Ragnarok.Masamonae 2013-01-11 16:40:26
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They definately missed the point of requesting the broadening range of WS merits...
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-01-11 16:48:01
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/DRK stuff will be worthless for anything but lowman/low buff situations.

Pending translation issues, 1h changes could go either way. If it's affecting level correction then great, if it's affecting only STR/DEX bonuses then it's not going to be worth much of anything. If it's only affecting the main hand, then it's complete ***.

DEF adjustments could be solid, depends on how they end up working.

Merit WS adjustments will be fantastic, not the best solution but it works.

BLM stuff I don't know or care.

General content adjustments should be great for everyone involved.
 volkom
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By volkom 2013-01-11 16:59:11
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make adamantoise egg easier to get!
 Cerberus.Kengo
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By Cerberus.Kengo 2013-01-11 17:00:25
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Now, all they have to do it make ***weak to magic and enfeebles and we have ourselves a game again.
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 Cerberus.Kengo
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By Cerberus.Kengo 2013-01-11 17:01:35
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volkom said: »
make adamantoise egg easier to get!

You just change your avatar again......?
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-01-11 17:02:19
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Like four times in the past hour, yeah.
 Cerberus.Detzu
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By Cerberus.Detzu 2013-01-11 17:04:52
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They rather nerf a ws instead of nerfing a job.
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 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2013-01-11 17:06:31
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When they say 1h they mentioned "Main hand". What about dual wielders? I'm guessing only your main hand is going to get this bonus?
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2013-01-11 17:18:27
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I wonder if they will remove the 2-hander requirement when giving Last Resort an innate JA haste effect.
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2013-01-11 17:20:15
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Siren.Kyte said: »
I wonder if they will remove the 2-hander requirement when giving Last Resort an innate JA haste effect.

LOL, I completely forgot about that.
 Bahamut.Fulgrim
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By Bahamut.Fulgrim 2013-01-11 18:03:16
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Not gonna lie, genuinely excited by this.
 Leviathan.Kincard
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By Leviathan.Kincard 2013-01-11 18:03:48
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Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »
When they say 1h they mentioned "Main hand". What about dual wielders? I'm guessing only your main hand is going to get this bonus?

Since it's put under concerns of balance of 1H VS 2H i'm under the impression that this bonus will apply to one handers only (Hopefully it isn't something like fencer and will apply to all 1H weapons regardless of DW). The JP post mentioned that a couple of these will possibly be things we can spend merit points on.
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2013-01-11 18:12:37
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I prefer to not get my hopes up. But a buff is a buff, I'll take it even if it is limited to main hand and continue to carve "Z"s in mobs faces. Now if it is like fencer... I'll be very disappointed.
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 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-01-11 18:18:19
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I'd merit that def pdt option if the category wasn't filled with good ***. That looks like a nice adjustment.
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-01-11 18:19:10
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Even if it's main-hand only, that's the hand most of your weapon skill comes from.
 volkom
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By volkom 2013-01-11 18:24:22
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Cerberus.Kengo said: »
volkom said: »
make adamantoise egg easier to get!

You just change your avatar again......?

you don't even know
 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2013-01-11 18:26:10
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volkom said: »
Cerberus.Kengo said: »
volkom said: »
make adamantoise egg easier to get!

You just change your avatar again......?

you don't even know
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