(Don't) Fear The Reaper: A Dark Knight Guide

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(Don't) Fear the Reaper: A Dark Knight Guide
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 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2017-03-17 06:43:41
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Odinz said: »
Asura.Azagarth said: »
@ odinz, its really no contest for top end DDs, drk/sam/war are atm the top end of of the group by a large margin. Look past the past 10 pages for torc vs reso.
I don't play DRK/WAR/SAM myself - purely THF/BLU/GEO/BRD/COR/RNG
Do you have an updated spreadsheet so I can play around with it?
I do parse everything we do and while we do have an amazing DRK and WAR in our group, he's rarely ahead of our THF or BLU in zergs against anything from T4s to Ambuscade or Omen. I've seen him pull off high 4k DPS but WAR and DRKs lack of survivability is always the issue. In theory sure 2handers might look like they're in a good place but unless they're SAM, whenever they get the attention of what they're fighting they go down pretty quickly.

Asura.Thorva said: »
Max AG Apoc is FAR stronger than you think, I have terrible scythe ws sets and have pulled out insane dps running apoc. Numbers non-rema blu will probably never see. And those videos you posted are terrible examples of drks ability. Not to mention SR caters to dual wielders in terms of dmg, JA recast vs a spell recast for a buff....
Those videos were produced before smite, geo nerfs and brd updates.

Also, still not seeing any hope for AG Apoc beating a well augmented double Colada Blu.

I'm not challenging everyone, I could be wrong. But please demonstrate it with something tangible.

Wouldn't Apoc allow you to ramp up white damage after drain 3 using Souleater and Cata spam to stay high? 6k to 9k HP would be a safe zone for Souleater to do its thing. It creates Darkness for future drains to keep max HP high.
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 Asura.Ganno
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By Asura.Ganno 2017-03-17 07:09:32
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Quetzacoatl said: »
Odinz said: »
Asura.Ganno said: »
DRK 27,0%
BLU 24,9%
It could be to engaging late, having hate and needing to cast magic fruit/whitewind etc.
And this is an example of what works on paper doesn't always function in practice. Circumstantial variables will always skew a parse under one or multiple arbitrary conditions. However, if we're limiting the variables to just those conditions, we might see a bridge in the gap, with the DRK having a much slighter edge.

In my opinion, though, we're not able to count on robots to be dealing damage, so we can't expect a true replication of what spreadsheets will simulate. This doesn't mean you shouldn't try, though.

It's a Schah parse, not unity or escha-Zitah mob.
The 2-3% difference refers to 200+k dmg, not a melee round.
I should remember to sshot more...
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By Odinz 2017-03-17 08:05:45
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Caitsith.Mahayaya said: »
Wouldn't Apoc allow you to ramp up white damage after drain 3 using Souleater and Cata spam to stay high? 6k to 9k HP would be a safe zone for Souleater to do its thing. It creates Darkness for future drains to keep max HP high.
WS DMG is a bigger contributer to total dmg.I think sacrificing the use of Cross Reaper or Insurgency for Catastrophe would be more deterimental towards total dps in this situation. Also those seconds lost casting would hurt even more in a fight that only lasts 1-2 minutes. On something like Schah casting might be benefitial, but spamming catastrophe or even occassional using it to top your HP would be a great drop in maximum dps.
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 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2017-03-17 08:38:17
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I don't have Apoc so I don't know how much Cata does vs. those two. But you'd also get 20% double damage on first melee hit. With 500 extra damage on melee from Souleater that'd be like 2500 extra every 4 hits before WS. Cata's that far behind those WSes?

And I'd think it's worth toying with the idea of an occasional Drain III vs being in a hybrid DT set for longer and the benefits downsides to each. You'd want to do either at times because a dead DD isn't doing anything for the parse.
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 Ragnarok.Phuoc
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By Ragnarok.Phuoc 2017-03-17 11:38:23
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In regards of the person that posted prime's videos about the parses and stuff, those were pre-smite bur right now the latest parses we had, he won like 7-3 on a buffed situation using his war, on hus drk would be the same because it has even more attack.
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By Odinz 2017-03-17 11:50:24
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Well I stand corrected on DRK and WAR vs Blu.
Quote:
Ragnarok.Primex
2017-03-17 11:49:01
I can't post - those Nazi's banned me from thread for something trivial. I play Blu a lot but not because it is the best DPS or even close. I play it because it allows me to survive, to support, and deal great dmg. In a situation where WAR or DRK have access to a buff that is going to allow them to survive, my WAR or DRK will tear down anything including a decked out THF or BLU. Those videos are old and DRK didn't have access to what it does now - the biggest game changers have been the drop in mob evasion, the increase in madrigal accuracy, smite modifications and the new gear from omen. Utu grip, the new K bombcore (forget its name) and Niq ring have increased my DRK and WAR's dmg output by at least 5% - the other changes have added another 10%. Having said that, I would still use my BLU and it is the best choice for most situations. Except for things like Schah - you need MAXIMUM dmg output for that *** if you're going to zerg him. WAR/DRK/SAM for melee and SMN if anything else. Anyways, you were right about 1 thing, SMN is above all of them
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 Asura.Thorva
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By Asura.Thorva 2017-03-17 13:17:32
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Odinz said: »
Asura.Thorva said: »
Max AG Apoc is FAR stronger than you think, I have terrible scythe ws sets and have pulled out insane dps running apoc. Numbers non-rema blu will probably never see. And those videos you posted are terrible examples of drks ability. Not to mention SR caters to dual wielders in terms of dmg, JA recast vs a spell recast for a buff....
Those videos were produced before smite, geo nerfs and brd updates.

Also, still not seeing any hope for AG Apoc beating a well augmented double Colada Blu.

I'm not challenging everyone, I could be wrong. But please demonstrate it with something tangible.
Might want to review the drk thread, a while back I posted a quick screenshot of when I jumped on apoc drk and ran up 3k+ dps with trash scythe sets in ambuscade.
Apoc has it's place, it is still behind Redemption and Anguta, doesn't compete with greatsword. But a double coloda blu would have trouble staying ahead of a decked out apoc drk. Not to mention the massive hp a drain 3 drk gets, the ability to skillchain endlessly, and with cata, you can run souleater with 7k hp. That is a lot of dps. Cross Reaper is capable of hitting more than 30k a swing and with as fast as scythe can build tp it isn't a stretch, you just need the right sets.
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 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-03-17 13:18:59
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Odinz said: »
I don't play DRK/WAR/SAM myself - purely THF/BLU/GEO/BRD/COR/RNG
Do you have an updated spreadsheet so I can play around with it?
I do parse everything we do and while we do have an amazing DRK and WAR in our group, he's rarely ahead of our THF or BLU in zergs against anything from T4s to Ambuscade or Omen. I've seen him pull off high 4k DPS but WAR and DRKs lack of survivability is always the issue. In theory sure 2handers might look like they're in a good place but unless they're SAM, whenever they get the attention of what they're fighting they go down pretty quickly.

Sadly there are no updates spreedsheets that I know of. I dont have the want/time either to produce one.

I have a very competitive blu/thf/cor etc too so I know what their dmg potential is. I use to use blu alot when it was bandwagoned and I was newer. Then I started to get a better drk and it started to deal what my blu did, so my ls wanting better chaos rolls for all the dds kept me coming drk. That alone boosted alliance dps which was nice for the blu and cors :D. Nowdays I am only losing a parse if I am lazy/off day or some bs mechanics happen like para proc on a JA or something, terror/stunned/amensia etc. I also do not play with slouch DD's. Our blus have BiS gear same with thfs etc, even our masa sams and lionheart runs are top geared. None have beat my dmg output except the Run on WoC bc he resists every stun. There has been no job that has made me say "I wonder if I should lv that job to have better dps".

Now wih that said the difference between top end DD's isnt so big that you are pigeonholed into one. I still regularly use different DD's for a change of scenery, etc and pull good enough numbers to kill stuff. I actually find cor savage spam very fun because I know I will lose, but I like to see how much I can close that gap (im competitive).

In Omen though its just stupid silly how far ahead my drk is on bosses. Drk is just King there for melee DD hands down. That arcane killer is just silly powerful, and add that to the fact I run around with 4500+ hp the whole run, means alot. Normally mid lv bosses im at 6k and can eat stuff a normally DD would be one shot by, Gorger-Quad/Craver-throat stab/tinker-pain sync. None of these are very scrayy with an on the ball whm. And honestly I have been using apoc A LOT now in omen. I can pull very respectable numbers off cata and CR isnt doing bad either. I am actually quite surprised at its dps, and yes I beat your avg alamce/sequence tiz/almace blus even with scythe so there goes your colada argument. CR wil still do 40k dmg at 3k tp, its not like its a horrible ws. cata will do in mid teens, etc. With anguta as I posted in my drk thread, I feel it could be a powerhouse - i need to make one to test.

as for survivability.... war has awesome -50dt DD setups so that is a non issue one a smart war. DRK has ability to have 4500-9999 hp all the time nearly any event.
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 Asura.Thorva
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By Asura.Thorva 2017-03-19 03:21:04
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So, I spent a little time out in apex today working on apoc tp sets and cross reaper builds.

I am able to run 22% haste (still cap with at least 34% magic haste, not hard to get), 31% DA, 3hit apoc build. Went with trust buffs and a human cor for sam roll to make my 3hit build work (couldn't get it without the human cor) My trust consisted of joachim, koru, and quatilda, needless to say I had evoker roll and mages ballad often. I think the best buffs I got out of it all was human sam roll and haste 2 as koru seemed to forget rdm gets dia 3.

Anyway, after tweaking my Cross Reaper sets back and forth for a while I ended up blending Str with WSdmg% From that and loltrust buffs, I was able to hold consistant 24k ws avg on apex crabs. Timing my ws properly with trust buffs I was also able to hold over 2k dps.

I think tomorrow I might try to get a few real people to buff me and see what I can do with apoc. As I said months ago, people seriously underestimated Apoc for a long time. Honestly I think it is because nobody has really worked on scythe builds and everyone has been stuck on the rag/reso only. Now that we have more people running drk in various ways we are seeing drk has impressive dps with other weapons.

I am in the process of getting caladbolg to 119 AG, just being lazy on the hmp, furthermore I have started empy scythe, I really want to play around with that +35 str/mnd and that 50% deal triple dmg. After tweaking my sets today I, more so than the past, believe scythe has a serious hidden potential not many people have explored since reso came out.
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 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-03-19 03:53:26
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Yes with the ability to much easier maintain a 3-hit (ws+2hit) build even on apoc it could really have some great revival. I am currently prepping for this too and have done some testing today haha. in terms of stp for those wanting to play around you need (for apoc 513 delay) 60 during ws, and 150 for tp phase. You can wiggle these around too based off what you use but I am finding top end CR sets maintain NO stp.

What it really boils down to is the need for a cor, for a 3hit you really need to have 60 stp from the cor. Its not unrealistic to get 60 stp from a cor now. The base for a cor+ring = 60 on a lucky 11, on a sam bonus 2 (lucky 52+10) or a crooked 2/10 will also work. If your cor has the new +7 roll neck then that opens up even more options. In most scenarios I can roll a lucky sams roll or crooked it nearly full time, so there is little excuse if you coordinate with your cor.

I made a post on the advanced drk forum too about anguta, it makes 3-hit setups with a cor just crazy easy to do, as in replace your apoc in your 4hit set and your done basically.
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By Asura.Luckyseven 2017-03-22 13:15:38
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Hey guys!

Looking to build a high-acc set and have some questions about the set in the guide.

It suggests using Carmine, but since the feet doesn't have any base accuracy I feel that the set bonus goes to waste. Am I wrong or is there something I'm not seeing?

What kind of acc sets do you guys use?
 Sylph.Cherche
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By Sylph.Cherche 2017-03-22 13:30:34
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Asura.Luckyseven said: »
It suggests using Carmine, but since the feet doesn't have any base accuracy I feel that the set bonus goes to waste. Am I wrong or is there something I'm not seeing?
17.5-21 ACC from B Path, depending on NQ/HQ. 20-50 additional from set bonus.
 Asura.Luckyseven
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By Asura.Luckyseven 2017-03-22 13:56:02
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Sylph.Cherche said: »
Asura.Luckyseven said: »
It suggests using Carmine, but since the feet doesn't have any base accuracy I feel that the set bonus goes to waste. Am I wrong or is there something I'm not seeing?
17.5-21 ACC from B Path, depending on NQ/HQ. 20-50 additional from set bonus.

So let's see here.

B path
Carmine mask +1
DEX 37
ACC 50

Carmine Cuisses
DEX 12
ACC 37

Carmine Greaves
DEX 28
acc 12

Set bonus +30 ACC

total
DEX 77
ACC 129


My normal TP set
argosy celata +1
dex 42
acc 50

Odyssean cuisses
acc 43

Flamma gambieras
DEX 30
acc 37

Total
dex 72
acc 130

Trading my normal TP set with these carmine pieces would give me slightly higher DEX vs slightly lower acc.

On the side I would lose DA and STP
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By Quetzacoatl 2017-03-22 18:45:48
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ChangeLog (3/22/2017):

  • Added Banner Titles for each section, so it looks less like Walls of Text and more like a guide.

  • Edited Details in Chapter IV, Section "Merit Points and Merit Groups."

  • Edited a crucial detail about Fallen +1 set.

  • Currently sifting through the Advanced DRK thread to post top-end gear sets.

 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-03-23 00:49:07
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Just a heads up, those are my actual sets XD, they arent the best. However they are very top end I feel, and something I bet most drks can aspire to get (I am an avg player time wise I feel).

This is not to start a fight, but argosy+1 body I have a chance to get for a decent price. I just feel im throwing money away though since I got af+3, has anyone been able to spreedsheet or do anything to close that unknown? I know we had talked about it earlier but it went into a ***on ppl hypothesizing, but at that point we didnt understand Utu grip dex effect, and all the extras that have come out since like set bonuses, regal ring etc. I am leaning that it would be top dps, but by so little I may be better off buying dark matter and hoping for a crazy DM augs lmao. Its purely a reso piece anyhow anymore, something I use less daily.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-03-23 01:54:09
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IDK what your total stats look like but I'll assume around 675 base damage with Rag, fSTR, STR mod and DEX mod with capped cRatio. You lose 1-2 base damage from rounding from DEX, no big deal, will only be a difference of about 11 damage in the end. The STR will be the same so the only real difference is DA vs the WSD. Just going to assume 2K TP, since Savagery and Moonshade puts you pretty close and there is always the potential for overflow, but 2K because I'm lazy. Also ignoring the 3% QA so I can just use a quick binomial. Figuring around 70% DA with fighter's and Argosy so 65% for Ign. +3. With 100% hit rate:

(5201+4408*4)*.1225+(5201+4408*5)*.455+(5201+4408*6)*.4225 = 28563.4

(4760+4408*4)*.09+(4760+4408*5)*.42+(4760+4408*6)*.49 = 28563.2

The first one is Ign. +3, just a quick write up to show you how close they are.
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 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-03-23 01:57:22
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So with af+3 having greater acc, theres just is not a reason anymore for argosy+1 from what I gather, makes sense to me lol. I am bad with math, but now alot richer.
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 Leviathan.Kuryomi
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By Leviathan.Kuryomi 2017-03-24 18:02:55
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Ok so I recently returned and I'm seeing other darks hitting like a truck for like 20 or 30k....I hit for like 7k reso lol. I got no job points and gear from delve bosses. Is job points what makes that kind of dmg difference? I know I don't got all 119 gear but geez.

Also see sams hitting mad hard. Which is easy to gear now days, sam or drk?
 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-03-24 18:11:22
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Leviathan.Kuryomi said: »
Ok so I recently returned and I'm seeing other darks hitting like a truck for like 20 or 30k....I hit for like 7k reso lol. I got no job points and gear from delve bosses. Is job points what makes that kind of dmg difference? I know I don't got all 119 gear but geez.

Also see sams hitting mad hard. Which is easy to gear now days, sam or drk?

sam or drk? its drk forms.... not really the best place to post that. But yes both are good, i prefer drk bc I can you know... do everything a sam can and then some.

So you 7k reso is of a few things. A- your missing hits, check your acc. B - your under geared by a lot. C - yes JP make a big difference but moreso your buffs. Just keep at it all of those points are easily fixed with time/work.
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 Leviathan.Kuryomi
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By Leviathan.Kuryomi 2017-03-24 18:31:47
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I prefer drk as well for the solo and utility. I think it solo a lot better then sam. But sam ws spam is fun too lol. Both of mine are gearedto about the same lvl. That's why I asked which is easyer to gear now days.
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By Bismarck.Gippali 2017-03-24 18:36:57
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Any job you want to excel at will require lots of time and effort into gearing. DRK may take a bit more due to the addition of magic sets for FC/Absorbs/Dreads/etc. It all depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go.
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By Quetzacoatl 2017-03-24 19:59:09
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Leviathan.Kuryomi said: »
Ok so I recently returned and I'm seeing other darks hitting like a truck for like 20 or 30k....I hit for like 7k reso lol. I got no job points and gear from delve bosses. Is job points what makes that kind of dmg difference? I know I don't got all 119 gear but geez.

Also see sams hitting mad hard. Which is easy to gear now days, sam or drk?
It's all a matter of preference at this point of the game. Both jobs will be equally time-consuming to gear.

As for Weaponskills:

  • If you're doing Skillchains, use Torcleaver. /SAM you can self-SC light to push out some heavy burst damage. It has a higher fTP mod than Resolution does at 1000-1500 TP, so use that to your advantage as well.

  • If you're doing raw damage, build up to between 1750~2000 TP to push out bigger Reso numbers. Not only does this increase your average dps, but you'll be more consistent. (I'd also recommend doing this when you've got BRD/COR buffs.)

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By Leviathan.Kuryomi 2017-03-26 12:40:51
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Siren.Sandraa said: »
Leviathan.Kuryomi said: »
Ok so I recently returned and I'm seeing other darks hitting like a truck for like 20 or 30k....I hit for like 7k reso lol. I got no job points and gear from delve bosses. Is job points what makes that kind of dmg difference? I know I don't got all 119 gear but geez.

Also see sams hitting mad hard. Which is easy to gear now days, sam or drk?

in before somebody tell you play GEO.BRD.WHM.

I did this with my ALT-Character, after i got burned with my Main

1.- Get NQ ambuscade gear with ILV119 Spark gears Easy-Mode and trusts you can get this is

2.- Get Sylvie, Qultada, King of hearts, Seth'eus and Kupipi. This will give you x2 attack buffs, x2 defense debuffs, Fighters/MP refresh/, AoE healing, Instant cure in negative status etc

3.- This will give you enough Accuracy/Store TP for join ambuscade shouts

4.- Farm Dynamis or Savage. In my case i farm dynamis i put 600 - 700 coins in a 2 hours run and 1 - 2 White-procs. Mumor, Uka, Malakov, Luzaf, Qultada can be amazing procers.

5.- Mercenary Tier 2 Reinsejima NMS weapons - Great-sword/Great-Katana/Scythe (Depending ur "Tastes", GS is stronger than Scythe). Mercenary Full Valorous set and augment that with Acu/Double attack or Acu/Store-Tp. Dont go crazy with the Augments just something "decent" for the moment.

This will make usable your DRK or SAM in 1 week farming dynamis daily.

I think SAM will be better for the moment spaming WS, lots of Store-Tp, chances of get a 3 - 4 hit builds more easy, better WS-SC properties, in general is more friendly to gear than DRK.

6.- Work in a legendary weapon. Relic-weapons have tons of accuracy and are most cheap than Empy/Mythic.

With 30 - 35 millions you can make one DD job "usable"

Talking about WHM, GEO, COR, BRD to get you good gear. Honestly i prefer have an alt with GEO/COR and my main with the jobs i love, is more practical and this will help in general more your entire Team.
Yeah that's kinda how I'm doing it but I'm not pulling that many in dyna valk. Am I in the wrong zone? Also I never get a white proc on nms and I follow the ja proc times
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By Sylph.Ice 2017-03-27 05:11:33
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Checked back a decent amount of pages and haven't seen anyone post a spreadsheet. Has there been one that's been updated recently for DRK?
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 Asura.Ganno
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By Asura.Ganno 2017-03-27 08:29:49
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Sylph.Ice said: »
Checked back a decent amount of pages and haven't seen anyone post a spreadsheet. Has there been one that's been updated recently for DRK?

Nope, none for years...
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By Quetzacoatl 2017-03-28 12:45:56
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Sylph.Ice said: »
Checked back a decent amount of pages and haven't seen anyone post a spreadsheet. Has there been one that's been updated recently for DRK?
Someone had expressed working on one, but I haven't seen anything else about it. Nightfyre also said he might come up with a spreadsheet when I asked about it, but didn't have any immediate plans at the time. I would personally take on the task, but I the only experience I have with dps spreadsheets is using one. I would gladly host a collaborative effort, however.
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By Quetzacoatl 2017-03-28 12:51:24
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Also, I know I said I was scanning the gear sets in the advanced DRK guide, but I'm almost finished with getting my DRK caught up on gear, so I'll get around to making updates to the guide soon.

Just need the Flamma+1 Body and Legs, and I'll worry about Valorous/Argosy/Carmine later on.
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-03-28 15:11:00
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Just skip those flamma and devote your time elsewhere. Both are inferior to other easy to obtain gear. The time you would have to spend to farm up that amount of gallantry is just silly high.
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