The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

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2017-10-15
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The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
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 Asura.Mewwgoat
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By Asura.Mewwgoat 2017-10-12 21:09:24
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so i realize my gs is not wanting to do some stuff right anymore, figuring that out (damn body slot) but i notice i dont have a trigger line for feet for night time, anyone willing to drop one for me?
 Sylph.Pve
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By Sylph.Pve 2017-10-12 22:01:01
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Asura.Mewwgoat said: »
so i realize my gs is not wanting to do some stuff right anymore, figuring that out (damn body slot) but i notice i dont have a trigger line for feet for night time, anyone willing to drop one for me?

I would appreciate this myself as well.
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-10-12 22:01:39
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Speaking of Kendatsuba, I think the HQ body should be in the capped haste set. 6% TA 9 critical hit rate should beat 4% TA and 3 Store TP.
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By Boshi 2017-10-12 23:50:49
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Code
function user_setup()
    gear.MovementFeet = {}
    gear.DayFeet = "Danzo Sune-ate"
    gear.NightFeet = "Hachiya kyahan +3"
    
    select_movement_feet()
end

--Ninja Specific Movement Speed Feet Rule
function select_movement_feet()
    if world.time >= 17*60 or world.time < 7*60 then
        gear.MovementFeet.name = gear.NightFeet
    else
        gear.MovementFeet.name = gear.DayFeet
    end
end

sets.idle = {
feet=gear.MovementFeet
}
 Asura.Mewwgoat
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By Asura.Mewwgoat 2017-10-12 23:56:30
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thank you so much!
 Asura.Mewwgoat
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By Asura.Mewwgoat 2017-10-13 04:32:48
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Boshi said: »
Code
function user_setup()
    gear.MovementFeet = {}
    gear.DayFeet = "Danzo Sune-ate"
    gear.NightFeet = "Hachiya kyahan +3"
    
    select_movement_feet()
end

--Ninja Specific Movement Speed Feet Rule
function select_movement_feet()
    if world.time >= 17*60 or world.time < 7*60 then
        gear.MovementFeet.name = gear.NightFeet
    else
        gear.MovementFeet.name = gear.DayFeet
    end
end

sets.idle = {
feet=gear.MovementFeet
}
so i dont know what i did wrong coping this over, but i couldn't get my haste levels to read correctly anymore, i was getting a buff read error everytime a buff would change
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By Boshi 2017-10-13 07:04:27
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Send me your gs in a pm ill check it out
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By hushmunkey 2017-10-14 10:23:54
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Looks like a lot of potential for Shun and Hi from Mummu +2
 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-10-14 17:53:38
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The +2 didnt change anything in my builds for shun or hi. If your thinking that the crit helped us, remember shun DOES NOT CRIT. I had to help at least half a dozen nins in ambuscade this week that geared shun like its CDC which just makes me go bonkers.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2017-10-14 20:00:01
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What would a Full nothing special set look like for shun?

For a master nin alt doing ***-tier shout, probably no buffs.

More or less? It's what she has now, can't really think of anything I feel like going out of my way to get for an alt that would improve it. Or would like some mix of Kend do better?

ItemSet 353754
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-10-14 20:07:46
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Kend would do better in every slot, and not having Fotia Gorget/Belt (or the applicable uncombined versions) is pretty bad. You should probably at the very least have Moonshade as well.
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By hushmunkey 2017-10-14 20:09:59
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Asura.Azagarth said: »
The +2 didnt change anything in my builds for shun or hi. If your thinking that the crit helped us, remember shun DOES NOT CRIT. I had to help at least half a dozen nins in ambuscade this week that geared shun like its CDC which just makes me go bonkers.

Potential for Shun is b/c of the stupid high DEX. Solid alternative to HQ Kendatsuba.

For Hi I typically gear for AGI and crit. DMG. Mummu +2 has crazy high AGI. Combine that with crit. rate from Innin and crit. rate from WS you could reliably crit. almost every time.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-10-14 20:36:59
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Spreadsheet-wise Mummu+2 performs REALLY well for Blade: Hi.
Not saying Mummu+2 is BiS for Blade: Hi, but regardless of that it's a really good set even before you start factoring the set bonus.
Thing is, though, that Hi isn't really that good of a WS unless you need it for some specific purposes (like SC etc)

As far as the spreadsheet goes I wasn't really shocked by the results of Mummu+2 for Shun instead, despite the high DEX values.
 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-10-14 20:47:08
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hushmunkey said: »
Asura.Azagarth said: »
The +2 didnt change anything in my builds for shun or hi. If your thinking that the crit helped us, remember shun DOES NOT CRIT. I had to help at least half a dozen nins in ambuscade this week that geared shun like its CDC which just makes me go bonkers.

Potential for Shun is b/c of the stupid high DEX. Solid alternative to HQ Kendatsuba.

For Hi I typically gear for AGI and crit. DMG. Mummu +2 has crazy high AGI. Combine that with crit. rate from Innin and crit. rate from WS you could reliably crit. almost every time.

id be willing to best full su3 set would win, or heck just use 3/5 adhemar/ samnuha legs and your TA herc feet and do better also. Cant really ever become a gil issue because the 3 months of ambu it will take to get a full mummu+2 set you will have made 100m+ in mats lol.
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By hushmunkey 2017-10-15 00:16:00
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Asura.Azagarth said: »
hushmunkey said: »
Asura.Azagarth said: »
The +2 didnt change anything in my builds for shun or hi. If your thinking that the crit helped us, remember shun DOES NOT CRIT. I had to help at least half a dozen nins in ambuscade this week that geared shun like its CDC which just makes me go bonkers.

Potential for Shun is b/c of the stupid high DEX. Solid alternative to HQ Kendatsuba.

For Hi I typically gear for AGI and crit. DMG. Mummu +2 has crazy high AGI. Combine that with crit. rate from Innin and crit. rate from WS you could reliably crit. almost every time.

id be willing to best full su3 set would win, or heck just use 3/5 adhemar/ samnuha legs and your TA herc feet and do better also. Cant really ever become a gil issue because the 3 months of ambu it will take to get a full mummu+2 set you will have made 100m+ in mats lol.

So - the idea behind Mummu +2 for Shun (and for Shun) in general, is to capitalize on all the DEX. I went ahead and spreadsheeted the sets you suggested along w/a generic heishi/ochu tp build, vs. a Mummu +2 set w/byakko pants. I added the +8 set bonus to each piece and only put the acc & crit on the ring since I don't know how to manipulate the spreadsheet enough to program a set bonus. Again these sets are a bit generic but perfectly illustrate the point - wherein Mummu +2 wins both times; as seen below:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k8c0drdwuxqogui/Screenshot%202017-10-15%2000.58.03%282%29.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sy5qnma0e6tqv40/Screenshot%202017-10-15%2001.00.30%282%29.png?dl=0

ALL of those sets could be tweeked. You could definitely even jack your numbers up w/some HQ abjurations or HQ Kendatsuba. However, as we all know, that's extremely expensive. I don't have time to farm 100+ mil for PART of one piece in the 3 months it would take me to fully upgrade my Mummu. I did have time tho' to get 40k+ hallmarks so as to more than upgrade my Mummu pieces this month ... in about three hours last night. I think I can manage 3 hours next month and the one after as well.

Since I seem to have gone off a bit on a tangent, the point that I mentioned earlier is that Mummu +2 looks to be a viable and obtainable competitor w/some of the present Shun gear.






...and also Hi but - yeah - Hi
 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-10-15 01:39:54
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Ya will do good from the stat vomit when you have every buff in the game on you for sure. However the lack of Multi hit and attack will really show in actual use. Shun gets a very big dmg increase from extra hits, which mummu gives none of basically. Not to mention nin has some of the lowest attack values on any dd in the game, meaning attack is a huge issue for them inmost modes of the game that nin is actually used in (ambuscade, master fights, cp, etc). You dont bring a nin to a zerg fight, so no reason to really give them zerg like buffs for comparison, especially if your doing a bidget set for semi-new nins.

Considering even with mummu+2 you will still be required at some point to have adhemar body/hands/head, and probably will have samnuha too if your at all serious about any light amor dd job... it really only comes down to an ok aug on herc feet which you will want anyhow for nin. I found a huge difference in the spreedsheet for jokashu legs too at capped everything (and even mid not capped everything) over samnuha too. But I didnt expect everyone to have those so I didnt add it, doing so would probably push dmg up considerably for mixed set 1, not to mention your difference of earrings is huge as moonshade vs lugra at capped means that moonshade does NOTHING because the attack bonus is null since your already capped.

I would suggest running those 2 changes in the mixed set (samnuah --> jokashu, and moonshade --> lugra) and I am sure you will get nearly identical ws dmg. And in all reality on the mixed set an avg nin will just use kenda head/feet which are better than adhemar head/ mid aug herc feet. Make that change and I am sure first set will win by quite a bit simply for the fact that your looking at a net gain with those 4 changes of 42 dex.

I am not saying mummu+2 is BAD, I am saying that for what nins already carry on them its going to be a side grade in only the best of scenarios and will fail miserably when any form of attack or buffs drop. Those +2 upgrades can be better used on other jobs normally. And if nin is your ONLY job then your probably going for a HQ mixed set which would just demolish a mummu+2 set anyhow.

With the benefit : time ratio mummu+2 is not worth it imo as a new nin. The gil you would get from all the exchange would pay a merc enough to get you all the other gear I listed which you would need anyhow.

if your looking at a strict comparison of dmg, then yes Mummu will fail hard to top end mixed sets which is all that really matters. And it only matters because you would go through all that ambu work only to end up with something equaling what you already have anyhow.

Get mummu+2 for debuffs, and maybe HI (though mixed is still king here). Don't be getting it for shun.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-10-15 01:56:34
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NIN attack may not be great, but NIN attack when using Shun is pretty damn high assuming you're using Heishi.
 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-10-15 02:06:02
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Thats true but it also means that the 100% attack multiplier at 2k (never proven but lets say its true from wiki) then that 150 is actually a lot more. Regardless if your in the position to make a full set of mummu+2 dont do it thinking shun will become better, its a side grade at best.

Now maybe a mix of some mummu, like hands, could be nice in the mixed set. It has high DA which is great and your not losing to much over NQ adhmear or kenda since id value 6 da > 3 ta for a ws since its 5 hit and cap is 8 hits. You do lose a little dex however which kind of sucs. Regardless thats the best shun piece and for its slott its still sidegrade at best, and loses to HQ options.

I still got my finger crosses for the day SE allows shun to crit... will be a beast and then mummu+2 would be wtf awesome for sure.

Also it might be fun to play around with, but I am certain we can get a damn near 100% crit set now with very minimal loss in multihit, kind of neat potentially. Even if just for that ez crit obj in omen lol!
 Leviathan.Bohjangles
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By Leviathan.Bohjangles 2017-10-15 20:11:28
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Why does Blade: Metsu list fotia neck/belt if its tp mod is debuff duration?
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-10-15 20:13:20
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because fotia is a flat increase to your ftp and not a tp bonus effect like moonshade
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-10-16 05:02:20
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Was about to say I don't get how you guys are getting those results from Shun with 5/5 Mummu+2" but then again what Kyte said is very true.
Reaching att cap with Shun is gonna be quite common considering the TP mod of the WS, Heishi and Moonshade.
Now I think the Spreadsheet currently overestimates when this actually happens, but regardless of that, it IS gonna happen.

At capped attack I'm getting ~12800 5/5 Mummu+2 vs ~12250 with my current set (which is not BiS).
Turning point in my sets is ~900 attack bonus from buffs.
I reach cap at ~1200.
I think in reality these numbers are probably higher, but the concept is clear regardless of that.
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 Leviathan.Louisoix
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By Leviathan.Louisoix 2017-10-16 10:11:24
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I've had nin for a while at 99. Obviously I'm here for amb gear sets. I have tp down fine pre su3. barring su3 what does a typical shun or ten set look like? or If there's updated ones around barring the su3 just point to the correct page? Thanks in advance!
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By hushmunkey 2017-10-16 10:39:28
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The Ten set on the main page is spot on. You'll want to aim for STR +10/WSD +5 augs (good luck with that) on your Herculean.

As you can see from the recent posts - the word on an obtainable Shun set is up fort debate. Bottom line is you'll wantt both fotia's and then DEX/multi- hit where you can.
Generally I wouldn't recommend spamming shun - even with Heishi. If you're the lone melee DD then you'll want to lean on it more to create radiance. If you're not alone and your aiming for light/radiance then shun as needed. Beyond that you'll only want to rely on shun if you're under - buffed and need the attack bonus. Honestly though if you're on content where your fstr and/or atk are found lacking you should probably have a bed, geo, cor, or all of the above present to remedy that.
Additionally, if you are under - buffed, don't discount the performance potential of Hi. Where mobs aren't resistant to darkness (caturae are quite resistant) kannagi/take hi spam is the highest dps potential for nin. Not only that, but crit. And crit. Dmg are more than capable of closing the gap on your attack disparity.
 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-10-16 20:11:36
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Ya front page for both shun and ten are pretty spot on for top end, but hush is right its hit or miss right now on what mid shuns should go for. I lean to just using the NQ variants more or less on front page for your avg person since its gear you will/should already have and theres no additional cost or time involved. Upgrading mummu+2 just for shun seems like a sidegrade at best, under best scenarios. That means its a good set, its just not replacing high end stuff - or probably even mid level stuff you already lug around (adhemar/samnuha/jokashu/herc/su3).

I have parsed various times vs top end Kannagi/Hi nins.... they never even come close to my aeonic/shun. I guess on paper it might be top? I havent seen that in spreadsheet even, and remember spreadsheets notoriously over value melee dps, which would overvalue the AM on Kannagi too.

Shun is very powerful, I find way better avg with shun than ten UNLESS I get a warcry/shivas. It seems that if you can pop off a little over 2k tp (not even at 2k for me) and you have the attack high enough to be capping it, then yes ten becomes amazing and you can start seeing well over 20k avg's. However, shun will make light with what seems to be any common ws you see, and most mobs are light weak and not dark weak anymore. This enhances the usefulness of aeonics by a ton. I cant remember the last time I actually used metsu.... sad day!
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By hushmunkey 2017-10-17 19:01:00
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Asura.Azagarth said: »
I have parsed various times vs top end Kannagi/Hi nins.... they never even come close to my aeonic/shun. I guess on paper it might be top? I havent seen that in spreadsheet even, and remember spreadsheets notoriously over value melee dps, which would overvalue the AM on Kannagi too.

Below are spreadsheets for HI vs. TEN as the highest outputs I've been able to achieve on paper. I also put together the best shun set that I could for you, and compared that to the previously mentioned Hi set. The enemy is set as trivial, though the victor maintains a slight edge on theorized 145 mobs. fortunately both sets are solid enough on acc. that an entire set (TP or WS) doesn't need to be changed to be effective at either setting.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpc9vxdbgwt03df/Screenshot%202017-10-17%2019.45.22.png?dl=0

Not sure entirely how you interpret the spreadsheet as overvaluing Empy aftermath. Of course it's set typically as an ideal WS spamfest, and it doesn't account for the time you need to gain and regain TP to maitain AM3. However, it should be equally noted that the spreadsheet doesn't account for SC dmg either. So while you may need to TP a couple more seconds to get AM3 up once every three minutes, you'll also be able to make and close darkness - AND do so without the aid of others; whereas TEN spam makes nothing by itself and closes with such sweetness as gravitation >_>

https://www.dropbox.com/s/129kmy2ft1i1bsw/Screenshot%202017-10-17%2018.46.29.png?dl=0

As you can see, Shun is a far cry performance-wise from the other two even with Heishi. Much like you can self-darkness, or team-darkness with Kannagi you can potentially make radiance with Shun, however - I'm not sure even radiance would be enough to close the gap in performance.
Naturally, as I stated in earlier posts there are times to use Shun, so please don't think I'm bashing it. I just wanted to post these sets as you hadn't seen Hi perform ever (paper or otherwise), and to help spread some ideas for gearing. Unfortunately these sets are (so far as I can tell) the utmost of performance and are generally unobtainable if you don't have hundreds of millions of gil for no reason. If any of you play with the spreadsheet and come up with better numbers by modifying what I have here, please do let me know.
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 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-10-17 19:26:02
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The spreadsheets over value emp aftermath in the sense that they over value white damage in general.

Ten is Ninja's strongest WS, been saying this forever. You truly need to be attack capped for it to outperform Shun although it doesn't have the best skillchain properties.
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 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-10-17 19:36:57
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Also for Hi, I think you might be better off just using WSD instead of crit damage.
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 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-10-17 19:59:54
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Ya ten hitting 26k avg doesnt seem like a far cry for a perfect scenario, thats about where I have got it in the past (little less but my augs arent 100% perfect yet). From a few lucky zergs on higher end mobs 22k was more realistic in play for what I could attain. I also have yet to meet a better ten set on my server too for what thats worth.

I have party with a kannagi nin for awhile, and NEVER on anything has he closed in on 20k ws avg, his Hi set is damn near perfect too. 13k~ is more or less where is is at.

I think where the issue my lie in is possible your adding the innin during the spreedsheet? That will HIGHLY skew the Hi avg's since it assume a 0sec decayed innin and ALWAYS behind the mob for the bonus. Regardless even playing with it for my hi set, it doesnt come close to what I get /shrug. Not sure why, but the spreedsheet is over valuing something for Hi that game doesnt actually replicate. The shun numbers are about avg though Id say, around 17k is what I see fully buffed.
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-10-18 01:13:38
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Fenrir.Snaps said: »
Also for Hi, I think you might be better off just using WSD instead of crit damage.
WSD is better in theory, because crit dmg works only when the WS crits, whereas WSD works all of the time.
When the WS crits (granted it's pretty often but not 100%) WSD and Crit DMG should be equal.

Well in theory at least. I mean I don't exactely know WHEN in the formula the % from Crit DMG is added compared to WSD...

But yeah if someone has both options available for a specific slot I'm confident WSD will always be better, and can use that gear for Ten too so inventory saving, yeaaaaaah!
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