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[Dev] Legion Follow-up
VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-04-12 19:08:38
| 04-10-2012 02:52 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep |  |
| Howdy everyone!
Two weeks have passed since the version update and we are certain that some of you are starting to conquer this content. We have received a ton of feedback on this new battle content and would like give some comments.
Difficulty
Since this battle content is for high level players, the difficulty is pretty high but that doesn't mean that it is impossible to conquer. It can be conquered by giving some thought to your battle tactics so please keep on trying to find the best path.
(The battle concept differs depending on the battle field and the key is to change tactics depending on the behavior of the 3 monsters that spawn simultaneously.)
Battle Balance for 18-person/36-person versions
We are considering lowering the difficulty for the 18-person version.
Difference in the Amount of HP
The only difference in the difficulty for the 18-person version and the 36-person version is the amount of the monster's HP. For the 36-person, the monster's HP will increase by 50% compared to the 18-person. However, considering players’ attack capability, the group of 36 will have double the power compared to the group of 18 and the amount of the monster's HP is not balanced properly based on this ratio.
To balance the ratio, we are considering lowering the monster's HP for the 18-person version to be half the amount of the 36-person version.
Adjustment on the Cost
The cost to participate in Legion will be double in the case players participate in a 36-person version, but looking at the loot, this ratio does not fit so we are considering cutting the cost to half of the current cost to balance out the difference in the number of participants.
Items exchangeable with Legion Points
Item that can be obtained through the exchange of Legion Points will get better by achieving new titles from Legion, but as a result, the choice of items are very small in the beginning, so we are considering to open up all of these items from the start. In addition, we are planning to add an advantage where the amount of Legion Points required to obtain each item will decrease by conquering Legion. | |
| 04-17-2012 02:28 PM | | Rukkirii | | Community Rep |  |
| Greetings!
As a follow-up to our recent Legion posts, we would like to go over the balancing of Legion battles.
To start off, the battle concepts behind the Hall of An, Hall of Ki, Hall of Im, Hall of Muru and Hall of Mul are each designed differently. Also there are differences between the enemies in each Hall, such as some monsters featuring high agility in exchange for lowered HP, some that may coordinate with other monsters or even varying behavior depending on the order in which you defeat them.
With that in mind, the key to conquering Legion is to be aware of these patterns and planning the appropriate tactics to counter them. In other words, making up things as you go along will only get you so far. When you first tackle Legion, it can be challenging to figure out how to advance, but by trying different strategies, players will start to see patterns and trends within each Hall and enemy that you should be able to come up with some good tactics and formation.
Hall of An is designed to be fairly straightforward and it features monsters with high attack, monsters that will use debuffs and monsters that are balanced in between. We suggest that you first challenge Hall of An to get the idea on how to tackle the rest of Legion.
Some players have had trouble finding a "safe spot" in between the first and second waves of enemies. While there is no specific area where it is consider to be 100% safe, there are certain parts of the map that monsters won't wander around. However, even though they don't wander to close to those areas, they can still detect the players depending on the distance. We can adjust and narrow down the range where monsters spawn and wander but if we were to do so, the monsters would be more concentrated and players may end up being attacked by 3 monsters at the same time so there are both pros and cons. But if the range should still be narrowed down, we would like to give some thought to it.
When it comes to the elementals that drop temporary items, they are designed to run from and attacker and to remain in the zone once they have been claimed. Even though they run off, they won't despawn if you have attacked them while they are present. The reason being so that players can defeat them and obtain their items at the perfect time that they need to.
All that said, we'll continue to gather your feedback and comments for the dev. team so please keep them coming! | |
| 04-18-2012 02:42 PM | | Rukkirii | | Community Rep | |
| | If they want people to do the event and have a robust /shout community, I completely agree they should at least put in Heavy Metal/Riftxxx stuff. |
While we're not currently looking into adding the suggested items to Legion to increase participation, we are looking at how to increase participation via other methods. | |
| 04-18-2012 04:27 PM | | Rukkirii | | Community Rep | |
| I think this is mis-translated slightly? As it doesn't make sense  |
Sorry, yes, the above part was a little bit unclear due to our wording, sorry about that. We’ve made a minor edit to make it clearer.
Also, to expand upon the elemental behavior a bit… Currently, their behavior follows the pattern of move, stop, and move again.
However, if we receive feedback that it is difficult to attack them because they move for too long, or that it’s difficult to attack them for non-ranged/magic-using jobs, the below changes might be possible.
Increase the frequency of how often the move, stop and move again
Increase the length of time that they are stopped
The first would increase opportunities in which the monster is in a vulnerable location, but the number of attacks that can be made each time may be lowered as a result. The second would increase the number of attacks that can be made each time, but also increases the likelihood of the monster staying in a spot that may be undesirable.
We’d love to hear feedback on which type of adjustment players would prefer. | |
 Carbuncle.Enuyasha
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 262
By Carbuncle.Enuyasha 2012-04-12 19:23:46
"its been two weeks so you guys should've beaten this"
they know our jokes....
"Adjustment on Cost"
waitwhut?
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 65
By Bismarck.Funstealer 2012-04-13 00:41:39
ithink from what that means they are gonna cut the cost in half of what it is atm for 18 people and keep it the same for 36
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1925
By Odin.Sawtelle 2012-04-13 01:04:08
I didn't even know there was an 18 person legion. I thought it was just people that only brought that many. Makes me happy!
 Bismarck.Disguise
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 149
By Bismarck.Disguise 2012-04-13 08:03:07
"cutting the cost to half of the current cost to balance out the difference in the number of participants"
Here we go again with the balance crap.
 Phoenix.Sehachan
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-04-13 08:19:00
I think the biggest problem with this event is the difficulty/reward ratio...at the moment I don't find a reason to bother with it.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2012-04-13 08:26:45
I've done it a few times now. Not very enjoyable content, imo, but if it's got the drops, I guess it's what we'll subject ourselves to dealing with if that's the only way to get them. Standard Tanaka effort:reward ratio.
I'd complain more, but I've only myself to blame at this point for continuing to pay to put up with it. ^^;
[+]
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-04-13 16:44:54
Haven't touched this event since the night it launched...cant bring myself to care. Seems like a dud on Shiva at least.
Bahamut.Dannyl
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1606
By Bahamut.Dannyl 2012-04-13 16:47:14
I think the biggest problem with this event is the difficulty/reward ratio...at the moment I don't find a reason to bother with it.
exactly. The only piece I would care to have would be this:
Inquisitor's Chain
[+]
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 117
By Siren.Froggis 2012-04-13 17:06:25
RNG RNG PLD WHM BRD COR
RNG RNG PLD WHM BRD COR
BLM BLM SCH SCH SCH RDM
Full-time Embrava and Decoy abuse with aegis plds and relic rngs. Someone should try that for AN. But embrava can be full-timed on all ally members if you have 3 sch and stagger 2hrs... plus their regen V is insane.
Carbuncle.Enuyasha
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 262
By Carbuncle.Enuyasha 2012-04-13 17:14:50
RNG RNG PLD WHM BRD COR RNG RNG PLD WHM BRD COR BLM BLM SCH SCH SCH RDM Full-time Embrava and Decoy abuse with aegis plds and relic rngs. Someone should try that for AN. But embrava can be full-timed on all ally members if you have 3 sch and stagger 2hrs... plus their regen V is insane. Kaustraburn too....but i think even with DoT that seems slow to me :<
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 117
By Siren.Froggis 2012-04-13 18:04:05
The rng pts with full buffs simultaneously kill behe and wyrm while sch deal with turtle for both tiers... idk about boss though lol.
edit: by deal with, I mean entertain til wyrm/behe dead
I guess you have like 10 min per tier so, might be cutting it close, but that set-up should be pwning at least the first tier if the rngs are good.
By Fupafighters 2012-04-13 19:41:46
Only problem is not alot of people play rng or sch lol. And regen V won't help if the monsters 1 shot you >.< I do like the strat though.
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 117
By Siren.Froggis 2012-04-13 20:35:27
Ya, one-shotting can't be helped with that strat except maybe scherzo. And since embrava and regen V stack would be like 150ish/tic regen something like that maybe more (assuming 510+ enhancing skill). But pretty sure the 3x sch embrava full-time is the way to go on legion, even if you don't use rng heavy set-up.
lol watch someone do this and SE emergency gimp embrava so it can't be accessioned.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 119
By Asura.Originalkord 2012-04-13 20:58:30
I joined one pick up group for Legion...Disaster is a good way to describe it.
It isn't really pick up group friendly content. They pushed this game to the point where it can be low manned/soloed, effectively killing the need for traditional linkshells. While its true there are still some tight groups out there, I don't know of any off the top of my head who have the base to sustain an LS Legion event. I also don't see many people actively shouting to recruit for Legion linkshells either. Since most abyssea shells turned out to be a revolving door, you can't blame 'em.
I guess many of us just can't see where it fits in, at the moment.
[+]
Lakshmi.Eyrhika
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 764
By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2012-04-13 21:23:02
Asura.Originalkord said: »I joined one pick up group for Legion...Disaster is a good way to describe it.
It isn't really pick up group friendly content. They pushed this game to the point where it can be low manned/soloed, effectively killing the need for traditional linkshells. While its true there are still some tight groups out there, I don't know of any off the top of my head who have the base to sustain an LS Legion event. I also don't see many people actively shouting to recruit for Legion linkshells either. Since most abyssea shells turned out to be a revolving door, you can't blame 'em.
I guess many of us just can't see where it fits in, at the moment.
QFT
FFXI went from a game where yo needed large linkshells to get stuff done, to lower-man content, and not legion seems to be going back the other way.
VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-04-17 14:32:58
| 04-17-2012 02:28 PM | | Rukkirii | | Community Rep | |
| Greetings!
As a follow-up to our recent Legion posts, we would like to go over the balancing of Legion battles.
To start off, the battle concepts behind the Hall of An, Hall of Ki, Hall of Im, Hall of Muru and Hall of Mul are each designed differently. Also there are differences between the enemies in each Hall, such as some monsters featuring high agility in exchange for lowered HP, some that may coordinate with other monsters or even varying behavior depending on the order in which you defeat them.
With that in mind, the key to conquering Legion is to be aware of these patterns and planning the appropriate tactics to counter them. In other words, making up things as you go along will only get you so far. When you first tackle Legion, it can be challenging to figure out how to advance, but by trying different strategies, players will start to see patterns and trends within each Hall and enemy that you should be able to come up with some good tactics and formation.
Hall of An is designed to be fairly straightforward and it features monsters with high attack, monsters that will use debuffs and monsters that are balanced in between. We suggest that you first challenge Hall of An to get the idea on how to tackle the rest of Legion.
Some players have had trouble finding a "safe spot" in between the first and second waves of enemies. While there is no specific area where it is consider to be 100% safe, there are certain parts of the map that monsters won't wander around. However, even though they don't wander to close to those areas, they can still detect the players depending on the distance. We can adjust and narrow down the range where monsters spawn and wander but if we were to do so, the monsters would be more concentrated and players may end up being attacked by 3 monsters at the same time so there are both pros and cons. But if the range should still be narrowed down, we would like to give some thought to it.
When it comes to the elementals that drop temporary items, they are designed to run from and attacker and to stay once they have been claimed. Even though they run off, they won't despawn if you have attacked them while they are present. The reason being so that players can defeat them and obtain their items at the perfect time that they need to.
All that said, we'll continue to gather your feedback and comments for the dev. team so please keep them coming! | |
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-04-17 14:35:52
players are already attacked by 3 monsters at the same time...
[+]
Ragnarok.Agerknux
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 94
By Ragnarok.Agerknux 2012-04-17 14:42:46
Asura.Originalkord said: »I joined one pick up group for Legion...Disaster is a good way to describe it.
It isn't really pick up group friendly content. They pushed this game to the point where it can be low manned/soloed, effectively killing the need for traditional linkshells. While its true there are still some tight groups out there, I don't know of any off the top of my head who have the base to sustain an LS Legion event. I also don't see many people actively shouting to recruit for Legion linkshells either. Since most abyssea shells turned out to be a revolving door, you can't blame 'em.
I guess many of us just can't see where it fits in, at the moment.
QFT
FFXI went from a game where yo needed large linkshells to get stuff done, to lower-man content, and not legion seems to be going back the other way.
I think that's what SE is aiming at. Now it seems that there are very few large ls that do events exclusively together (mainly ADL). Not to mention that people were asking for large LS type events.
I wasn't around when Einherjar first came out, but was there a similar difficulty situation there too? Just wish more LS on my server would try it out more.
The way I see it is that this finally an event that doesn't involve "fake difficulty" like Nyzul's floor jumps or extreme luck based drop rates of VW.
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3753
By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2012-04-18 11:22:15
I find the post extremely interesting actually.
"safe spots"- strange and unique.
"tactics on the fly aren't going to work"- a welcome change from all the comments about Abyssea and VW being FFXI on easymode.
"each chamber will require unique tactics"- very strange indeed.
even a suggestion of what chamber to start in, along with the strengths of the mobs in specific chambers.
These are far from the cryptic comments given to us about AV. While people can fairly complain/comment on the adjustments that are being made, (minimal at best) the suggestions and hints are very interesting to me.
VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-04-18 18:01:44
| 04-18-2012 02:42 PM | | Rukkirii | | Community Rep | |
| | If they want people to do the event and have a robust /shout community, I completely agree they should at least put in Heavy Metal/Riftxxx stuff. |
While we're not currently looking into adding the suggested items to Legion to increase participation, we are looking at how to increase participation via other methods. | |
| 04-18-2012 04:27 PM | | Rukkirii | | Community Rep | |
| | I think this is mis-translated slightly? As it doesn't make sense |
Sorry, yes, the above part was a little bit unclear due to our wording, sorry about that. We’ve made a minor edit to make it clearer.
Also, to expand upon the elemental behavior a bit… Currently, their behavior follows the pattern of move, stop, and move again.
However, if we receive feedback that it is difficult to attack them because they move for too long, or that it’s difficult to attack them for non-ranged/magic-using jobs, the below changes might be possible.
Increase the frequency of how often the move, stop and move again
Increase the length of time that they are stopped
The first would increase opportunities in which the monster is in a vulnerable location, but the number of attacks that can be made each time may be lowered as a result. The second would increase the number of attacks that can be made each time, but also increases the likelihood of the monster staying in a spot that may be undesirable.
We’d love to hear feedback on which type of adjustment players would prefer. | |
Lakshmi.Eyrhika
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 764
By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2012-04-18 18:05:41
We would prefer Legion to not suck? They spent the last 2 years destroying large-scale organized linkshells, and now make an event that is destined to fail with any shout group you will ever get. /headdesk
[+]
 Phoenix.Bigpun
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9
By Phoenix.Bigpun 2012-04-18 18:16:10
We would prefer Legion to not suck? They spent the last 2 years destroying large-scale organized linkshells, and now make an event that is destined to fail with any shout group you will ever get. /headdesk
ya it doesnt make much sense. plus its a hella annoying event for such little return. ud think it would b more like einherjar back in the day where they had alot more to offer
| 04-10-2012 02:52 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| Howdy everyone!
Two weeks have passed since the version update and we are certain that some of you are starting to conquer this content. We have received a ton of feedback on this new battle content and would like give some comments.
Difficulty
Since this battle content is for high level players, the difficulty is pretty high but that doesn't mean that it is impossible to conquer. It can be conquered by giving some thought to your battle tactics so please keep on trying to find the best path.
(The battle concept differs depending on the battle field and the key is to change tactics depending on the behavior of the 3 monsters that spawn simultaneously.)
Battle Balance for 18-person/36-person versions
We are considering lowering the difficulty for the 18-person version.
Difference in the Amount of HP
The only difference in the difficulty for the 18-person version and the 36-person version is the amount of the monster's HP. For the 36-person, the monster's HP will increase by 50% compared to the 18-person. However, considering players’ attack capability, the group of 36 will have double the power compared to the group of 18 and the amount of the monster's HP is not balanced properly based on this ratio.
To balance the ratio, we are considering lowering the monster's HP for the 18-person version to be half the amount of the 36-person version.
Adjustment on the Cost
The cost to participate in Legion will be double in the case players participate in a 36-person version, but looking at the loot, this ratio does not fit so we are considering cutting the cost to half of the current cost to balance out the difference in the number of participants.
Items exchangeable with Legion Points
Item that can be obtained through the exchange of Legion Points will get better by achieving new titles from Legion, but as a result, the choice of items are very small in the beginning, so we are considering to open up all of these items from the start. In addition, we are planning to add an advantage where the amount of Legion Points required to obtain each item will decrease by conquering Legion. | |
| 04-17-2012 02:28 PM | | Rukkirii | | Community Rep | |
| Greetings!
As a follow-up to our recent Legion posts, we would like to go over the balancing of Legion battles.
To start off, the battle concepts behind the Hall of An, Hall of Ki, Hall of Im, Hall of Muru and Hall of Mul are each designed differently. Also there are differences between the enemies in each Hall, such as some monsters featuring high agility in exchange for lowered HP, some that may coordinate with other monsters or even varying behavior depending on the order in which you defeat them.
With that in mind, the key to conquering Legion is to be aware of these patterns and planning the appropriate tactics to counter them. In other words, making up things as you go along will only get you so far. When you first tackle Legion, it can be challenging to figure out how to advance, but by trying different strategies, players will start to see patterns and trends within each Hall and enemy that you should be able to come up with some good tactics and formation.
Hall of An is designed to be fairly straightforward and it features monsters with high attack, monsters that will use debuffs and monsters that are balanced in between. We suggest that you first challenge Hall of An to get the idea on how to tackle the rest of Legion.
Some players have had trouble finding a "safe spot" in between the first and second waves of enemies. While there is no specific area where it is consider to be 100% safe, there are certain parts of the map that monsters won't wander around. However, even though they don't wander to close to those areas, they can still detect the players depending on the distance. We can adjust and narrow down the range where monsters spawn and wander but if we were to do so, the monsters would be more concentrated and players may end up being attacked by 3 monsters at the same time so there are both pros and cons. But if the range should still be narrowed down, we would like to give some thought to it.
When it comes to the elementals that drop temporary items, they are designed to run from and attacker and to remain in the zone once they have been claimed. Even though they run off, they won't despawn if you have attacked them while they are present. The reason being so that players can defeat them and obtain their items at the perfect time that they need to.
All that said, we'll continue to gather your feedback and comments for the dev. team so please keep them coming! | |
| 04-18-2012 02:42 PM | | Rukkirii | | Community Rep | |
| | If they want people to do the event and have a robust /shout community, I completely agree they should at least put in Heavy Metal/Riftxxx stuff. |
While we're not currently looking into adding the suggested items to Legion to increase participation, we are looking at how to increase participation via other methods. | |
| 04-18-2012 04:27 PM | | Rukkirii | | Community Rep | |
| | I think this is mis-translated slightly? As it doesn't make sense |
Sorry, yes, the above part was a little bit unclear due to our wording, sorry about that. We’ve made a minor edit to make it clearer.
Also, to expand upon the elemental behavior a bit… Currently, their behavior follows the pattern of move, stop, and move again.
However, if we receive feedback that it is difficult to attack them because they move for too long, or that it’s difficult to attack them for non-ranged/magic-using jobs, the below changes might be possible.
Increase the frequency of how often the move, stop and move again
Increase the length of time that they are stopped
The first would increase opportunities in which the monster is in a vulnerable location, but the number of attacks that can be made each time may be lowered as a result. The second would increase the number of attacks that can be made each time, but also increases the likelihood of the monster staying in a spot that may be undesirable.
We’d love to hear feedback on which type of adjustment players would prefer. | |
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