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The Rokkenjima murder case - Umineko spoilers
Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2011-12-26 16:13:27
I remember there were a few fans of the novel on the site, and it's been a while since I've wanted to discuss it with someone!
I just finished the 8th chapter so I'm still in full "goat mood".
What are the theories you made up throughout the chapters? Who do you think was the culprit? What's your opinion on the various mysteries?
And remember that without love truth cannot be seen.
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Bahamut.Feisei
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By Bahamut.Feisei 2011-12-26 16:37:28
Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2011-12-26 16:44:48
One of them is a trap, just fyi.
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By Asura.Ludoggy 2011-12-26 16:47:30
The trap is always more appealing at first.
Bismarck.Misao
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By Bismarck.Misao 2011-12-26 17:29:42
I'm interested about this.
I saw a few episodes of the anime, but the sub-group broke apart and stopped subbing :<
Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2011-12-26 17:51:45
Well the anime only covers the first 4 games in a bit superficial way(though really enjoyable nonetheless).
My humble theory[spoilers]:
The culprit is Kyrie. I think it's the only one that really makes sense and it ties well with everything else. First she's crazy as ***. This is confirmed when she herself admits that she was planning to kill Asumu. The fact that Ange is left at home could suggest that she planned ahead the mass murder as well, but that could be a coincidence. Rudolph thought he was going to die by her own hands because of what he did, that could be the moment where she either lost her mind completely or took the chance to put him on a leash and use him as an accomplice. I think that the 7th game, even if not completely accurate still holds a lot of the truth: Kyrie is the culprit, killed a bunch of people, Eva stopped her by killing her and escaped with Battler. Still there's something I'm not sure of...in what way does Battler presence change Yasu's plans? We know that "Beatrice" becomes a victim of her own plan, but what was the plan anyway? Maybe to escape with Battler? Judging from the 8th game it seems she died after they left the island, but I'm not sure. Did Battler find her still alive after Kyrie's rampage and tried to take her with him? And then she killed herself cause she thought she was the cause?
Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2011-12-27 17:13:35
No Witch Hunters? :<
Come on, I won't bite if you tell me your theories...
Bismarck.Misao
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By Bismarck.Misao 2011-12-27 17:29:55
:< you can bite
what would be a good source to read/see this?
Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2011-12-27 17:31:51
http://witch-hunt.com/
This is the official site of the group who translated all 8 chapters. You can buy the downloadable version(divided in only two packages) - or you can pirate it, and then use the patches from that site.
Bismarck.Misao
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By Bismarck.Misao 2011-12-27 17:34:42
Thanks, ill look into them ^^
Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2011-12-27 17:36:09
Installing the game is a bit annoying cause you have to do it setting the pc in japanese localization...but if a pc noob like me was able to do it, anyone can xD
Bismarck.Misao
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By Bismarck.Misao 2011-12-27 17:41:59
shouldbe ok, already have my pc setup for some....... jp content :3
Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2011-12-30 16:14:16
By the name of Lady Frederika Bernkastel I hope for a chance in a miracle that someone else on this site is insterested in this discussion D: *searches in the sea of fragments*
For commoners: it's just a bump.
Necro Bump Detected!
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By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2012-02-08 17:30:27
Oh my god why didn't I see this before
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Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-02-08 17:41:11
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By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2012-02-08 17:57:42
Okay so I thought for the longest time that the culprit was
Kyrie, since well she's smart, but smart in a creepy way. Not quite diabolical, but you know she can get ***done if she wanted to. I guess her heritage strengthens this image of her for me.
But then
Shkannon became obvious, super obvious by EP6 so I thought that. Then Shannon's WOULD YOU L IKE M E TO CALL KANON K UN made it official.
What about Rokkenjima Prime? (The REAL event)
It could be a number of things. I personally think that Ange is just a *** and chose to remember everybody as horrible people so it would be easier to pin it all on Eva.
It's kind of hard to stray away from Shkannon though. There is considerable evidence for Kyrie being the culprit, but a lot of it is just Bernkastel trolling the *** out of everybody.
Here is my theory on the 'protocol' of October 4:
Shannon has money and manpower, so she can do whatever she wants to unchecked. She decides to play a 'murder game' with Battler when he returns, hoping that he'll remember.
This is initially not ACTUAL murder. EP5 and 6 suggest that the First Twilight is faked at first. The fakery is either
a.) A way to convince everybody to go along with it or
b.) Legitimate, but then Kyrie or Eva hijack it with real murder
I lean towards the former. You see, one of the dubious points of Shkannon is 'how can a girl commit six murders at once?' Easy, you bribe them with money to play along with a 'game'. The premeditation is supported by the bank accounts shown in EP4.
No one besides Battler really HAS to suspect real murder at all, depending on who's involved. The makeup is convincing enough that nobody has to really know that they're actually dead. This is in Shannon's favor: after all, once somebody finds out, they would give away the ruse.
However, at any point in the game, somebody can solve the Epitaph. As seen in EP3, the first person to solve the puzzle becomes 'Beatrice', and Shannon is willing to relinquish all of her power to this person. Perhaps she hopes Battler can solve it, who knows.
EP1 is the 'bad end' in which nobody solves the Epitaph, meaning Shannon wreaks havok all the way through. EP3 is a world where someone succeeds and takes up the murders independently.
Essentially, I propose a rather rigid set of rules for Rokkenjima (there is room for variation, naturally). EP7 shows us a miracle kakera, but this has a very small probability of actually happening at all.
Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-02-09 05:23:20
The game theory is quite good and sure makes a lot of sense Going to the point, the culprit imho can only be one between Eva, Shannon, Kyrie and stretching it a bit Battler, others make very little sense.
Eva
why yes: she's the only survivor; hides the truth from Ange; she's the only one who could reasonably solve the epitaph; has the crazy Ushiromiya genes like Kinzo, Rosa and Shannon; revenge/greed could be motives
why not: the heart, she would never kill Hideyoshi and George, so someone else must have been killing along with her(the husband being her accomplice and dying protecting her makes a lot of sense, but still it would mean that someone else kills him)
Kyrie
why yes: she's crazy; she could go even crazier cause Rudolph *** with her, and being Battler "the cause" that could possibly relate to it; Ange is left at home; Eva hides the truth from Ange; she's shown to be very greedy and unscrupulous more than once
why not: nothing really
Battler
why yes: he's never shown to be actually killed and 8th ending could be true; he comes back after 6 years and hell breaks loose; truth is hidden from Ange; his comeback is considered the cause that starts everything
why not: breaks pretty much all the rules; doesn't really have a reason to kill anyone beside Rudolph, so he's really lacking a motif
Shannon:
why yes: she is Beatrice; holds a grudge against Battler - the reason why the murder game starts; is completely out of her mind; Nanjo, Kumasawa and Genji could be her allies, whilst for others only Maria would be; the whole premeditation thing is her doing
why not: Eva would have no reason not to tell Ange she was the culprit(I know it's for mistery's sake, but stilll...); her only grudges are against Kinzo, Battler and the "purgatory sisters", so why would she kill everyone else...unless she confuses magic with reality one more time and actually kills people during "the game" without even realizing(which isn't so farfetched at all); she becomes a victim, but in what way?
So in the end it boils down to Kyrie and Shannon for me.
On a side note I liked some other explanations though, like Rosa strangling Maria out of anger. I really believed that!
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By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2012-02-09 18:21:49
I agree; however I think we should add Rosa. With EP3, we are shown that she is capable of solving the Epitaph alone, though she arrives minutes after Eva. Eva just acts first and kills her and her daughter.
I think it's not necessarily premeditated each time, save for Shannon.
Of course, the first person to solve the Epitaph becomes Beatrice. I'd argue that this person then continues to the murders for one of the following reasons:
a.) To protect the gold. After all, there is a chance that somebody will come along and take some of it, and no no no we can't have that. The culprit would be shortsighted or blinded by greed, because he doesn't realize that the bomb will take away MOST of the gold.
b.) It's just easier to explain. Murders have already happened at this point, though the new Beatrice didn't do any of them. When the police arrive, Beatrice will be very VERY suspicious. It's just easier to wipe the others out with the bomb (excluding loved ones who can keep their mouths shut).
EP3 and possibly EP5 conform to this pattern. The EP7 Tea Party does too, but we don't know if that's valid because it was Bernkastel's story.
Granted, there are quite a few explanations for it all. Willard's solutions narrow the culprits to a few people, thus restricting the 'pattern'.
Also Seha, do you have Ougon Musou Kyoku? The Umineko fighting game. I'd recommend it even if you don't like fighting games, it's a lot of fun; if you do like this genre, this is actually a top-notch game (as in well-made).
There was a recent expansion, Ougon Musou Kyoku CROSS, though you need both discs to actually play it.
On another note, a real life friend and I started a roleplay on Gaia Online a long time ago where we each created our own full "Episodes" for the other to solve. It's still going on, because he's slow, but if you want I could post links.
As far as difficulty goes, I'd say it surpasses Umineko.
Bismarck.Misao
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By Bismarck.Misao 2012-02-09 18:42:22
I hsve a gaia acv, but havent logged in forever lol
Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-02-10 06:19:28
A friend told me about that game and says it's great, I should look into it, don't have it yet.
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By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2012-02-12 16:47:14
A friend told me about that game and says it's great, I should look into it, don't have it yet.
It's a blast
also, did you hear about the project Ryukishi is working on now?
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=3978580
Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-02-12 16:52:28
I love the title already!
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2012-02-12 17:15:50
One of them is a trap, just fyi.
A holes a hole D:
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By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2012-02-14 19:30:47
Found this today and sent it to my girlfriend.
(Of course, she's read Umineko too, or else she'd be weirded the hell out)
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By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2012-03-08 18:57:52
Rose Guns Days seems interesting; Ryukishi tackles historical fiction. Also Higanbana is really close to being translated by Team RONOVE.
(le bump)
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By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2012-03-21 12:02:52
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Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-03-21 12:08:19
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By Asura.Daleterrence 2012-03-21 12:31:09
^ You just won the Internet.
(Just passing by, don't mind me)
Necro Bump Detected!
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By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2012-05-23 19:13:21
So I'm going as Kanon to Otakon this year!! Yay!
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By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2012-05-30 18:47:40
Oh yeah, and my girlfriend is going as Yasu. Together, we are a walking time paradox.
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I remember there were a few fans of the novel on the site, and it's been a while since I've wanted to discuss it with someone!
I just finished the 8th chapter so I'm still in full "goat mood".
What are the theories you made up throughout the chapters? Who do you think was the culprit? What's your opinion on the various mysteries?
And remember that without love truth cannot be seen.

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