Thread Locking And Deleting Epidemic

Can't really blame them.. Most of the active users have relationships (is that the right word?) with the other active users they'd have to mostly moderate.

I have been willing to take that roll on, on even larger forums before, but I do not want it here, I've expressed that I have no interest in it, in the past, and it still stands. The only reason I'm even here anymore is for the community and I wouldn't exactly be tolerant, I suspect I would become quickly hated by the very thing that keeps me here.

I imagine quite a few who don't want to take on the roll are of a similar opinion.

I really don't like the new rules, but I understand why they're there. I try to keep within the rules, but sometimes I get carried away.

I agree, Nev, it is kinda funny. To be honest, after Scragg unlocked the thread about the CNN debate, I was going to re-write what I had tried to post to that thread. However, I had already gone and re-written it into my personal journal, and couldn't be bothered to write it a third time. Then our Linkshell event came up, then dinner, then kids' homework, etc etc. I fell asleep.

However, I'd also like to point out, that the fact that thread has gone untouched since it was unlocked ... maybe is the strongest evidence of all that it never needed to be locked in the first place.

There were some Users making dumb posts in the waning pages of that thread, and from that standpoint, I can understand the Moderator's POV as to why he took that action. However, it would have served just as well to Topic-Ban those specific Users, and left the thread unlocked. That way, when someone comes along a few hours later with something insightful to add to the discussion, he isn't "locked out".

That said, I DO agree that the Moderators here do a fine job, in general. The OP here was *not* intended to express extreme dissatisfaction. It was intended to address a *specific* concern. For the *most* part (with a notable exception involving Flionheart ... shocking, I know), this discussion has stayed on-topic, and I'm grateful for that. Grateful towards the Staff and Users alike.

I'd like to interject one more potential solution to the problem outlined in the OP.

Sorry for throwing so many potential solutions/ideas into the mix, but I figure history (on this website) shows many of my "fix-it" ideas are unpopular. So, it's best if I try to think from multiple angles and generate multiple possible solutions, if possible. Maybe at least one idea will be found suitable.

Anyways, I digress ...

I think it's important to consider a parallel between forums' discussions and real-life communication. Whether it's in a classroom, a restaurant, in your living room, or around a campfire, when a group of people is having an earnest discussion or debate, there is an expectation of some level of decorum. People respectfully take turns speaking, people generally stay on-topic, and sometimes a quip or joke brings some "comic relief", but then the conversation returns to the topic at-hand. Also, if someone is bored or disgusted by the discussion, s/he simply excuses him/herself and leaves, or keeps quiet.

Now, in the forums, a lot of conversations start out this way, but unfortunately, almost without fail, someone butts-into the conversation and writes something completely inflammatory, with the purpose of embarrassing another User. Or, alternatively, someone jumps in and fires up the memes ("umad?", "oh you!", "no you!", etc.) or the animated gifs involving slow-clapping or popcorn-eating, etc..

These actions, in my opinion, are the real-life equivalent of stumbling into a group conservation drunk off your *** and falling over furniture, slurring your words, and picking fights with sober people when you can hardly stand up. Or, alternatively, it's like someone busting into a group conversation wearing huge clown shoes and a big red rubber nose and an orange afro, honking a horn and spraying water in people's faces.

Why am I painting this picture?
I don't think people realize how much of an *** you're being when you derail a topic or thread.
It happens so commonly on internet forums, that I think it's become acceptable (at least to some Users), or even ... expected?
That's crap, really.

With apologies for my long-windedness, I suggest the Moderators become less-tolerant of memes and obvious derail and trolling attempts. Just topic-ban Users when they do that stuff, straight off.


"Umad?"
Topic-ban.
"No you!!"
Topic-ban.
{Michael Jackson eating popcorn image}
Topic-ban.
{short, inflammatory post that only attacks another User's opinion without contributing anything of value to the discussion}
Topic-ban.


If this were enforced consistently, Users would change their behavior, while threads could continue without the need to be deleted or locked unnecessarily.

Would this be a lot of work for the Moderators? Maybe it would. The forums would probably need more Moderators to make this solution practical. But, given the manpower, it would work.

That said, a far easier way to accomplish the same thing, again, would be the "kids table"/"adult table" forums permissions levels.

I often topicban those who post nothing but memes or contribute nothing to the thread. I don't think people realize the sheer number of topicbans that are issued. This number is why I mentioned needing more internal discussion about when enough is enough with topicbans.

I've made a request to Scragg to provide the overall number of the amount of topicbans that have been issued.

what of the occasions where someone has been a long time contributor to a thread and gets into very very very heated argument with someone, does that really require a topic ban or deleted posts and telling them to cool it.

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.

Maybe just that sometimes a bit of interaction can go a long way.

I think the question related to the following example.

Person A: The sky is blue because of chemicals in the sky... light refracting... blah blah blah.

Person B: Oh thank you Person A, that's very informative.

Person C: Um... no, the sky is actually orange.

Everyone: What?

Person C: The sky is orange. I don't have proof but the sky is orange.

Person A: I told you exactly why the sky is blue...

Person C: Well you're wrong, the sky is orange.

Person A: ... can you please show me proof as to why you think the sky is orange?

Person C: Duh, because it's orange. Are you blind?

Person A: . . .

Then it goes on, and person A starts yelling at person C for being a dumbass(because it's incredibly frustrating being told your wrong with no proof or real logic), and then person A gets topicbanned or whatever because they start to get a little over the edge because quite frankly the whole situation is a bit ridiculous.

Are you trying to tell me the sky isn't orange?

Well the issue is most of the mods don't even play XI anymore(not your fault guys), so they don't understand that person C is being as absurd as my illustration. All they see is unreasonable mad. :x Person A is considerably more distraught and mad than Person C, and Person A is probably first to call Person C a moron/any other variety of names, thus warranting a topic ban from someone who doesn't know what exactly is going on. :/

Yeah, I understand what you were saying.

I just wish some of the troublemakers would just grow up....

Yeah...

I'm not even sure some of them know exactly how ignorant/ridiculous they're being though. ._.;

this pretty much

its pretty much the reason i was banned from multiple dnc topics

I know mods aren't elected, but I actually think that Niniann would make a good mod. Just putting that out there.

This stood out to me as the initial assault.
Which leads me to believe person A deserves the "topic ban."
Because it breaks the forum rules (I'll assume, I haven't really read them, but "dumb ***" and a "profanity filter" seem to correlate).
Person C instigated an argument, but was clearly stating an opinion, which related to the topic which was being spoken (the sky), and assaulted no one.
An opinion everyone is entitled to have, unless internet laws have changed and now the freedom of speech is null.

Repeat offense of person C running into threads and causing arguments, however would perhaps be considered as disruptive behavior and would require some action. (Obvious trolls are obvious c>2007)
The question is how many repeats can person C have before it is to be considered disruptive behavior? That's an answer you'd have to turn to the owners or mods to answer.

Sorry if I evaluated that for nothing but I was just pointing out small things not mentioned in the initial scheme.
A- being A was actually assaulting C
and
B- is person C a repeat offender

If A really was an intellectual, I'd assume s/he would further explain why s/he supports their position and find a way of asking C if they had reasoning behind their claim (to some people the sky really is orange and at different times of day or seasons it can be in fact orange) without using profanity and attacking C.
Or ignore the statement that C made and move on.

>.>

Two wrongs don't make a right.

True, but I think the point is more like if someone was provoked into an inflammatory argument he should have some kind of mercy and a bit loosen grip.

Nobody can be patient forever and moving on potentially allows misinformation to spread.

That's where reporting the user or requesting them be topicbanned comes in. Like I said, two wrongs don't make a right. Sinking down to the level of a troll gets no sympathy from me.

I've been a mod on other websites and the past and I did a fine job. Though to be honest I wouldn't want to be a mod here. There's too much, and I'm a little too abrasive. Especially given that my attitude on these forums right now isn't exactly mod-material. Yes I can act completely different, and be completely mature and impartial, but do I want to be? Probably not. :(

On that note I vote Kalilla as a mod.


I suppose I shouldn't actually say Person A specifically called Person C a dumb-***. I was trying to simplify my point without making it too crazy. But after trying to reason with someone who can't be reasoned with, it drives you a little insane.



Some things in this game are pretty much black and white, there's actually no opinions(only facts), though a lot of people will insist the game isn't as such. Saying things like, "well this fits my playstyle" doesn't work. I was trying to find some example to illustrate my point but right now it's escaping me.


The problem is that most of these people aren't actually trolls. Sure there are some, but they're usually pretty easy to spot. Most of the people causing commotion are genuinely ignorant people, who are completely stubborn and won't listen to reason. This is what drives reasonable people absolutely up the wall.


Yes, intellectuals usually try and explain their point in a logical and reasonable view, but what happens if they don't get the point? What if they say you're wrong when you're not? You tell them 2+2=4(decimal system), and they say, "No 2+2=6". What do you even say to them? You can give them an example of two apples plus two apples is four apples when put together, but what if they still don't get that, and insist it's six, and don't give you proof? I mean what do you do?

I guess my point is that it's very frustrating. Sure I should just ignore them (I often just do that), but it's like... hnnnngh idk.

Can you actually report someone for that though? I mean if you can report people for being blatantly wrong and stubborn I'm going to start doing that. >____>;

Why is there a topic about this

jeez just PM a mod

/sigh

If they're just ignorant, they're not doing anything wrong. If they're purposely doing it in an attempt to derail / troll the thread, they'll be topicbanned. Either way a mod should be notified to handle and/or defuse the situation.

Such posts do not fall under the forum rules or reportable posts as far as I can tell, so this is the first I've heard that there's an option beyond "hope they'll go away before you lose patience" or simply giving up (which has its own aforementioned issues). That's good to know though.

EDIT: There's a subset of posters who are willfully ignorant and will defend that ignorance beyond all reason. They are not deliberately trolling, but they still have a potential negative impact on the knowledgebase of the site. It seems those posters can't be reported after all.

Send me a PM if you have particular people in mind.

Oh, ok. Yeah being ignorant isn't doing anything wrong, but it's doing a great disservice to the XI community when they spout wrong information. Hence why people try to neutralize the situation. I guess I'll just make sure not to strike first and report them when they start to lash out at me to solve the issue~

I'll be sure to do that in the future.

if that is a case is there a way to, i dont know the exact word i should be using, petition for certain people to have topic bans removed? I only mean it in context of the cases where people have spent the majority of the time providing real worth while posts to said threads.

i will take that as a no, kthx