Victory Smite Better Than Pummel? |
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Victory smite better than Pummel?
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like the title says, is smite better than pummel for pup? wanna here some feedback before i decide to chloris it up.
Smite is much better. its a 4hit WS with 2.25fTP (so technically 9.0fTP) where Stringing Pummel is a 6-hit with 0.75(?) so... 4.5fTP
So right off the bat, mods not including, Victory Smite has 2x The base power as Stringing pummel If you're doing Chloris and not rev fists, you get ODD, makes no diff which one is better, unless you have kenk, lol nothing else is even going to come close enough to matter
Asura.Karbuncle said: Smite is much better. its a 4hit WS with 2.25fTP (so technically 9.0fTP) where Stringing Pummel is a 6-hit with 0.75(?) so... 4.5fTP So right off the bat, mods not including, Victory Smite has 2x The base power as Stringing pummel FTP is only applied to the first hit of any ws. Edit: Base ftp, gorget stuff etc; ever other his is 1.0 I hear Smite is much better in Abyssea. Outside, they're much more comparable, with Smite only slightly pulling ahead (in terms of WS numbers). If you want the best, yes, the Empy wins for a number of reasons.
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: If you're doing Chloris and not rev fists, you get ODD, makes no diff which one is better, unless you have kenk, lol nothing else is even going to come close enough to matter Sylph.Tigerwoods said: If you're doing Chloris and not rev fists, you get ODD, makes no diff which one is better, unless you have kenk, lol nothing else is even going to come close enough to matter What's ODD? Ifrit.Jynxy said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: If you're doing Chloris and not rev fists, you get ODD, makes no diff which one is better, unless you have kenk, lol nothing else is even going to come close enough to matter Sylph.Tigerwoods said: If you're doing Chloris and not rev fists, you get ODD, makes no diff which one is better, unless you have kenk, lol nothing else is even going to come close enough to matter Occaisionally does Double Damage. Asura.Karbuncle said: Smite is much better. its a 4hit WS with 2.25fTP (so technically 9.0fTP) where Stringing Pummel is a 6-hit with 0.75(?) so... 4.5fTP So right off the bat, mods not including, Victory Smite has 2x The base power as Stringing pummel That would be true if every hit reflected on the ftp, ie 2.25 + 2.25 +2.25 etc etc, but it doesnt. After the first it its 1.0. Smite would be: 2.25 +1.0 +1.0 +1.0 DA/TA hits 1.0 +1.0 +1.0 +1.0 so a 4hit is 5.25 with a 8hit being 9.25. SP: .75 +1.0 +1.0 +1.0 +1.0 +1.0 DA hits 1.0+1.0 with 6hits being 5.75 and 8 being 7.75. 60% str mod vs 35% str/vit mod would probably depend how much greater overall str was vs vit. For instance youll probably hover around 150-160 str and vit with cruor/food/base stats. Gear wise I dont know what pup gets, but lets say +50 str(no reason to add vit over str outside it being already there, since str gives attack and is the same % mod) 200*.35 = 70, 150(vit)*.35 = 52 (70+52)=122 * .85 =103 200*.6 = 120 120* .85 = 102 Roughly even, add another 50 str 250*.35 = 87 (87+52)= 139 *.85= 118 250*.6 = 150 150* .85= 127 No surprise there since more str will favor the smite build. Anyhow overall its still a small increase, considering a full 6hit is about 9.5% stronger from ftp vs full 4hit smite. Youll have to figure out the averages in swings for ws(factor in your accuracy/da/ta) to see what it comes out to be. @OP, Either way the answer is simple, get Vere for your pup, the aftermath ODD is great for your job and out does the difference in weaponskill Im sure. Its not uncommon to see ODD crits for 700-1200 each hit on mnk, so I would assume pup could come close to that, mind you potentially lower since you dont have impetus. Offline
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so what if i went for rev fists +2?
Tebernok66 said: so what if i went for rev fists +2? Offline
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So if you are not in a situation where you can get Veretehgara.... what -should- you get? Soloing Walk of Echoes for 30 coins is going to take a long time.... so what should you get?
You are also saying Victory Smite is not worth it unless you can get the full Veretehgara thingy? -R runeghost said: So if you are not in a situation where you can get Veretehgara.... what -should- you get? Soloing Walk of Echoes for 30 coins is going to take a long time.... so what should you get? You are also saying Victory Smite is not worth it unless you can get the full Veretehgara thingy? -R Hito's analysis neglected two things that I feel should be mentioned: Pummel is two hits from the hits/round cap (not terribly important outside Abyssea but a small limiting factor inside), and Smite likely has a higher innate critrate than Pummel. Just something to bear in mind. Fenrir.Nightfyre said: runeghost said: So if you are not in a situation where you can get Veretehgara.... what -should- you get? Soloing Walk of Echoes for 30 coins is going to take a long time.... so what should you get? You are also saying Victory Smite is not worth it unless you can get the full Veretehgara thingy? -R Hito's analysis neglected two things that I feel should be mentioned: Pummel is two hits from the hits/round cap (not terribly important outside Abyssea but a small limiting factor inside), and Smite likely has a higher innate critrate than Pummel. Just something to bear in mind. What is the crit rate on Smite? I haven't found anything on it yet. Odin.Hitoseijuro said: Tebernok66 said: so what if i went for rev fists +2? >_> Rev Fists +2 is perfectly fine if you honestly want to spend the time to farm the 30 coins. Never hurts to have another high damage WS beyond Pummel. But that's up to you. PUP does well without Smite. If you have an empy group, get Smite. If you won't, you can live without Rev Fists +2 or you can farm up a pair. (What I did since I'm mostly a solo PUP and working on Kannagi over Vere.) Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Hito's analysis neglected two things that I feel should be mentioned: Pummel is two hits from the hits/round cap (not terribly important outside Abyssea but a small limiting factor inside), and Smite likely has a higher innate critrate than Pummel. Just something to bear in mind. I dont think it being a 6hit really is much of a factor outside of using Apoc + A&O where smite is going to be TA 1/4 of the time. I honestly hope smite has a better crit rate than pummel, but isnt Ukko said/rumored to be around 20%? It would make sense to keep dual wield jobs under that unless SE made them all within that margin. Considering that while I have seen VS rival if not beat out ukko ws it normally takes a full 8 round + w/e amount of hits from impetus which leads me to believe its less. Bahamut.Serj said: What is the crit rate on Smite? I haven't found anything on it yet. Odin.Hitoseijuro said: I dont think it being a 6hit really is much of a factor outside of using Apoc + A&O where smite is going to be TA 1/4 of the time. Quote: I honestly hope smite has a better crit rate than pummel, but isnt Ukko said/rumored to be around 20%? It would make sense to keep dual wield jobs under that unless SE made them all within that margin. Considering that while I have seen VS rival if not beat out ukko ws it normally takes a full 8 round + w/e amount of hits from impetus which leads me to believe its less. I can tell you this, when I have time to play at work I have no gear swaps and am usually sporting minikin and mounted champion to skill up puppet. In those situations (aka crappy gear and atma) Pummel seems to do a bit better than smite. Of course, that doesn't take into consideration ODD, but it just seems like smite pulls ahead when using real gear whereas they are pretty close with crap gear.
Now then, that's the most subjective and least math filled post of the thread. Asura.Darkmessenger
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Odin.Hitoseijuro said: Snippit Oh? Learn something new everyday! Must have been thinking about Evisc too much. I recall reading someone saying Evisc was basically 5.0fTP because of 5 hit and got the impression fTP carried to each hit. Makes perfect sense in retrospect that its 1.0... Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Bahamut.Serj said: What is the crit rate on Smite? I haven't found anything on it yet. Thought Sawtell (sp) posted it as ~35% crit @100 on ukko's. If I'm not busy later, I can test Smite, which will be annoying as hell but I'll do it. Edit: this guy this post says 30% Fenrir.Nightfyre said: I honestly have no idea. We don't have much data on Empyrean WS critrate bonuses - it seems like I saw some data on Ukko's at some point but can't recall where nor the results, and Hi is reportedly 15%/20%/25% at 100/200/300 TP according to JP testing. I've been meaning to test Chant du Cygne but I'm currently working six days a week and generally busy on my day off so there's been no opportunity to do so. Nightfyre said: Like I said, small. It would only be a factor ~4% of the time with Apoc and Epona's, then you consider that it's a relatively minor increase by that point due to all the hits involved... Not even a 1% increase. Mostly notable in that Smite spikes higher (***). Bahamut.Serj said: 30% would certainly be interesting... 40% base, 45% with Rancor Collar and up to 55% with Ravager's Mask, Zahak's Mail, and augmented Heca legs, even if dDEX is floored. Makes capping dDEX less important, which isn't a bad thing given how mediocre most of WAR's trades are. 15% base critrate seems pretty likely from loleyeballing my Hi damage. RR/GH with Rancor Collar still sees some noncrits, but not often. |
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