Paladin FAQ, Info, And Trade Studies.

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Paladin FAQ, Info, and Trade Studies.
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-04-13 16:05:34
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I don't think you understand. Double 30~40% != 100% but is greater than 50~55%
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By aeronx 2014-04-13 16:17:51
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I don't think you understand. Double 30~40% != 100% but is greater than 50~55%

No, I understand. I was just trying to determine the usefulness of this shield and really its not that great if you aren't getting a 100% block rate during reprisal.

Like I said earlier the only time its really going to help is with your bdt set because you can now cap bdt without having to use hrotti, which means that that for those ppl that have one you can still use burtgang and still cap pdt. It makes sense that this shield would be more useful for bdt considering that we have ochain for pdt and aegis for mdt.
 Bahamut.Cumulonimbus
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By Bahamut.Cumulonimbus 2014-04-14 16:40:55
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Recently picked up pld and not sure if this was answered here somewhere, although wasn't able to find anything..

do gear that inflicts spikes create hate?

just got the ice lion helm and wish to use it for the acc since it's got pdt- over yaoyotl, but if it causes problems for supertanking i'd rather not cause unnecessary scenes. i remember back in vw era plds weren't allowed to wear the 4%pdt gloves with flame spikes to hold adds from like bismarck, but i just tried to do a small test it didn't seem to affect hate though i can't be 100% sure if i did it right.

thanks for any input!
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-04-14 17:30:22
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Bahamut.Cumulonimbus said: »
Recently picked up pld and not sure if this was answered here somewhere, although wasn't able to find anything..

do gear that inflicts spikes create hate?

just got the ice lion helm and wish to use it for the acc since it's got pdt- over yaoyotl, but if it causes problems for supertanking i'd rather not cause unnecessary scenes. i remember back in vw era plds weren't allowed to wear the 4%pdt gloves with flame spikes to hold adds from like bismarck, but i just tried to do a small test it didn't seem to affect hate though i can't be 100% sure if i did it right.

thanks for any input!
Spikes and en-effect have no enmity. Which sucks for excalibur, but that's the way it is.
Bahamut.Cumulonimbus said: »
i remember back in vw era plds weren't allowed to wear the 4%pdt gloves with flame spikes to hold adds from like bismarck
I don't recall anything like that. And I know for certain that Reprisal got used on those adds without issues. I must be missing something if ppl didn't want magma gauntlets used while holding adds.

Also, please note. Spikes, and even counter attacks will not put you on a mobs hate list. You must act directly on the mobs, or on someone who has acted on the mob to get on the hate list.
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By Bahamut.Cumulonimbus 2014-04-14 17:37:36
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Bahamut.Cumulonimbus said: »
Recently picked up pld and not sure if this was answered here somewhere, although wasn't able to find anything..

do gear that inflicts spikes create hate?

just got the ice lion helm and wish to use it for the acc since it's got pdt- over yaoyotl, but if it causes problems for supertanking i'd rather not cause unnecessary scenes. i remember back in vw era plds weren't allowed to wear the 4%pdt gloves with flame spikes to hold adds from like bismarck, but i just tried to do a small test it didn't seem to affect hate though i can't be 100% sure if i did it right.

thanks for any input!
Spikes and en-effect have no enmity. Which sucks for excalibur, but that's the way it is.
Bahamut.Cumulonimbus said: »
i remember back in vw era plds weren't allowed to wear the 4%pdt gloves with flame spikes to hold adds from like bismarck
I don't recall anything like that. And I know for certain that Reprisal got used on those adds without issues. I must be missing something if ppl didn't want magma gauntlets used while holding adds.

Also, please note. Spikes, and even counter attacks will not put you on a mobs hate list. You must act directly on the mobs, or on someone who has acted on the mob to get on the hate list.

thank you! i figured but was afraid was wrong, i've seen many people get flamed at, and i most certainly don't want to screw up something major cuz i assumed!
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By Fenrir.Nitenichi 2014-04-16 16:46:47
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Incredible turn of events for the new Priwen Shield, reprisal now tripled. SE was like oh you gonna use this shield. Gonna be pretty crazy once May update rolls around to see if indeed it's as boss as SE is putting it out there
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-04-16 17:01:35
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It's not that they're changing the Priwen enhancement, it's that they gave us the wrong value for it the first time.

Unfortunately, we still don't have an English dev post on this, so the BG translation will have to do.
Quote:
Priwen (4/15/2014)

In an earlier post I had said the shield doubles your blocking rate during Reprisal, and this is incorrect. It in fact triples your blocking rate during Reprisal.

However, as of today we also have word of an adjustment to reprisal on the way.
Quote:
Reprisal and Priwen (4/16/2014)

Quote:
Damage from monsters like the Delve ones tend to be very high. This defeats the purpose of the powerful Reprisal effect Priwen provides, which would be especially useful on powerful monsters like these.
The situation is as you describe. Thus, we will be changing Reprisal in the May update. Instead of the current setting of HP/2 maximum reflected damage, it will be changed to HPx2.
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By Carbuncle.Jysthea 2014-04-20 16:47:06
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Something I've been wondering, if the current reprisal is 1/2 health, and the change is going to make it 2x health (effectively 4x what it was).

How would Aegis stack up, assuming you could relatively easily full time the reprisal?

Basically, what +block rate does reprisal give to Aegis.

Should quantify; as in things 119 or lower, not the level 126 stuff (can add that in too if you so choose etc).
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-04-20 17:35:29
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Aegis never had much of an issue with reprisal wearing early, that I experienced. It's block rate is just to low to make reprisal wear early without having like, 15~ mobs on you. So this doesn't mean much to Aegis.

As for test values. My Aegis values are.... weird.. The gains I was getting from reprisal on aegis were far far lower than they should have been.

109 mobs.
Aegis
432 skill
base block rate: 39.08%
Reprisal rate: 49.26%
Sample size:4748 hits

10.18% block rate gained... If reprisal is block rate x1.5, then I should have about got twice that much.

Waaay back when reprisal was first added, there was a glitch that gave Aegis something like 90% block rate with reprisal. SE of course, patched that. I kinda have to wonder if the unusually low reprisal gains are the remnants of that nerf....

Anyway, Aegis comparisons.

Aegis WITH reprisal. 49.26% block rate. -81% DMG on block. -39.9% overall dmg-

Killedar WITHOUT reprisal. 51.72% block. -86% dmg on block. -44.4 overall dmg-

Priwen WITHOUT reprisal. 54.37% -88% dmg on block -47.8% overall dmg-.

Basically, for anything but magic, Aegis sucks. Good Ilvl shields without reprisal will beat Aegis+Reprisal. And when you use reprisal, particularly with Priwen, the Ilvl shields jump ahead massively.

btw, reprisal up blockrates for the Ilvl shieldss.
killedar, 76.79%
Priwen 98.44%
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 Ifrit.Showmo
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By Ifrit.Showmo 2014-04-20 18:36:19
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
As for test values. My Aegis values are.... weird.. The gains I was getting from reprisal on aegis were far far lower than they should have been.
This is going to sound a bit crazy, but maybe Reprisal is calculating Aegis' block rate as a Size 3 shield (without the 5% bonus it's supposed to receive), and spitting out the result without tacking the 5% back on?

So if you parsed at a 39.08% block rate, it would drop down to 34.08% if you removed the 5% block rate bonus. 34.08% * 1.5 = 51.12%, which is closer to the parsed 49.26% result...

That, or it was just an unlucky sample. But I wouldn't put it past SE to break Aegis' calculation in the process of trying to fix the 90%+ block rate glitch, and it's just been miscalculating for the past 6 years...

Killedar calculates just fine within the predicted range, and I guess Priwen capped somewhere around 98%, as 54.37% * 3 = 163.11%, which far exceeds 100% block rate.
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-04-20 18:52:29
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Yeah, something was odd with priwen numbers. It shoulda been waaay capped.

Hmm. that's a possibility. Although, calculating a size 5 shield as a size 3 would be really weird.

I guess I should probably do some more Aegis tests. Maybe some on lower level mobs so the increase will be larger and more distinctive. And then one on 126 mobs.

After I get some decent data, If it still looks like something is off I might post a bug report on the OF maybe SE will fix it. <,<;;
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 Asura.Calatilla
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By Asura.Calatilla 2014-04-20 18:56:41
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Bahamut.Cumulonimbus said: »
Recently picked up pld and not sure if this was answered here somewhere, although wasn't able to find anything..

do gear that inflicts spikes create hate?

just got the ice lion helm and wish to use it for the acc since it's got pdt- over yaoyotl, but if it causes problems for supertanking i'd rather not cause unnecessary scenes. i remember back in vw era plds weren't allowed to wear the 4%pdt gloves with flame spikes to hold adds from like bismarck, but i just tried to do a small test it didn't seem to affect hate though i can't be 100% sure if i did it right.

thanks for any input!
Spikes and en-effect have no enmity. Which sucks for excalibur, but that's the way it is.
Bahamut.Cumulonimbus said: »
i remember back in vw era plds weren't allowed to wear the 4%pdt gloves with flame spikes to hold adds from like bismarck
I don't recall anything like that. And I know for certain that Reprisal got used on those adds without issues. I must be missing something if ppl didn't want magma gauntlets used while holding adds.

Also, please note. Spikes, and even counter attacks will not put you on a mobs hate list. You must act directly on the mobs, or on someone who has acted on the mob to get on the hate list.

I did the Sahagin SKCNM a few weeks back with a PLD holding the mobs while the DD pulled one at a time, the SMN that was with us kept using shock spikes with Ramuh and the WHM pulled hate every time they cured the PLD. Seemed a bit off, but after the SMN stopped using spikes we never had issues. I initially thought it was because of the spikes, but if what you say is true then I can't think of why the WHM would pull hate since nobody touched the adds that I am aware of.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-04-20 19:33:07
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Hmmm, when pets get involved supertanking can get weird... For example, there was a glitch(I dunno if it still happens) where if a pet died or was dismissed, the adds would go after the pet's master.

But I can't even begin to count the number of times I've held adds and used reprisal with no issues. So it can't just be spikes causing that.
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By Asura.Echandra 2014-04-20 22:04:42
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it's the bloodpacts from the pet...they will generate hate so at the point you have to claim and go. I used to always cuss out the smns in VW who would want to "help" I'll give you hastega! >> no more supertanking because you have successfully generated ally hate. /benny hill music for adds go
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By Rethem 2014-04-21 14:51:31
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Agreed with Echandra about the Bloodpacts. I've had it happen to me several times.

Also, been doing some testing with Priwen a bit, and it defintely does seem very nice, certainly a big step up from Beautific and seems better than Killedar. I am thinking this update to change the spikes dmg limit will help alot as well though. Unfortunately I don't have an ochain to compare with still, but I've been able to tank plenty of stuff just fine that ppl normally use ochain for.

Martel, where did you find that it was a size 3 shield? I have never been able to find it, although I probably need to look better...
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2014-04-21 14:58:36
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Rethem said: »
Agreed with Echandra about the Bloodpacts. I've had it happen to me several times.

Also, been doing some testing with Priwen a bit, and it defintely does seem very nice, certainly a big step up from Beautific and seems better than Killedar. I am thinking this update to change the spikes dmg limit will help alot as well though. Unfortunately I don't have an ochain to compare with still, but I've been able to tank plenty of stuff just fine that ppl normally use ochain for.

Martel, where did you find that it was a size 3 shield? I have never been able to find it, although I probably need to look better...
Shield sizes are part of the dats. BG will usually list them:

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Priwen

You can normally tell just from the type of shield it is though. Aegis and Ochain are special types and are the only one in their sizes. Priwen is a kite shield so you know it's going to be a size 3 right from the get go.
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By Rethem 2014-04-21 15:23:04
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Thanks Sekundes. I don't know why I never noticed that listed there on BG. But you're right of course, it's pretty much guaranteed to be size 3 by the shape, but I just wanted to confirm it somewhere I suppose just in case they made it "special" too.
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2014-04-21 15:41:02
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It's always best to check. SE is consistent with some things but not all and after all, they make so many mistakes it'd be best to confirm rather than assume.
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 Lakshmi.Bladewing
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By Lakshmi.Bladewing 2014-04-25 12:58:47
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Working at rebuilding my PLD back up with af/relic i119 gear and notice that the OP has not been updated in while. Can someone please post what is currently considered the top set/s: PDT MDT Melee CDC Requeiscat
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By Quetzalcoatl.Busta 2014-04-25 13:15:11
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Martel has pretty good setup, and seems up to date:
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Ragnarok/Martel/#item-sets
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By chichicha 2014-05-03 00:05:16
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Is defense doing good dmg reduction?
What is your normal def at? 1500+?
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By Phoenix.Cliamain 2014-05-03 14:43:08
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I just got my Burtgang to 119 the other day and i've been looking for some aftermath rules for my spellcast. Does anyone have a good sample I can peer at?
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By Fafnir 2014-05-08 11:03:26
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Updated item sets. There is not much difference between AM up/down gear, not enough to justify the inventory space for me, anyways.

Edit: Had augments wrong for Xaddi headgear in my sheet; don't see it being a useful piece now.


TP - Normal

Kariyeh/Miki. sollerets/Pak +1 are viable alternatives.
ItemSet 234331

Requiescat
Miki. body slightly ahead
ItemSet 242500


TP - MidAcc
A Path
ItemSet 323064

Chant du Cygne - MidAcc
Acc Path
ItemSet 234339
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By Fafnir 2014-05-08 11:58:55
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chichicha said: »
Is defense doing good dmg reduction?
What is your normal def at? 1500+?

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/36705/iipunch-monk-guide/32/#2416236
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By Quetzalcoatl.Waffless 2014-05-09 16:37:39
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I'm thinking of putting together an AA set for the times when I've shouted for an hour and there are no replies. Which pieces of AF/Relic +1 would I need to work on first to have a decent set?
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By Scruffyballs 2014-05-09 18:14:16
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AF head, Relic or AF body/legs (relic offers 1 more dt/pdt depending on the slot) would be a good start.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Waffless 2014-05-10 06:26:43
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Ok thanks. I figured the AF head was a given, but what about the rest of the slots? (assuming I could +1 any piece of AF/Relic)To be honest I'd probably mostly just full time them so not sure about what I should use.
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By Scruffyballs 2014-05-10 13:39:05
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If you're mostly going to be full timing this set I would use Cizin with pdt if you have or can get it.
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By Asura.Raitoken 2014-05-11 21:05:18
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So a few questions for you paladins here.

Which WS do you guys prefer? I've seen some 2-3k CDC on normal AA with a geared paladin but have heard Req is better. Now is there a point where one is better over the other? I just don't want to waste the time/money to unlock CDC if Req is better. I would like to use CDC tho since it frees up WS points for my other jobs though.

Also, is there a point where going /blu is useful? I have NIN/WAR/DNC leveled and will eventually get /RUN but I rarely ever see /BLU mentioned. I know cocoon is really good but I have no idea if that is the only gimmick the sub provides as I know nothing about Blue Mages.

Would appreciate any input. :)
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By Phoenix.Aeronx 2014-05-11 22:56:18
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So I actually saw the opposite in my testing of Req and CDC, that CDC was better Req out the majority of the time. So its definitely worth it to get CDC imo.

/blu is the best tank sub imo, besides cocoon which is awesome you get access to a lot of blu spells that have great enmity values associated with them. Blank gaze for example is more cost effective mp wise for enmity generation and really eliminates the need to use cure cheats.
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