Did a parse today to get some data on Triple attack overproccing Double attack, results were promising. I had a lot more stacked Double attack this time, which allowed for much more visible results.
Total DA 47% (/war, eponas, brutal, atheling, anguinus, plaguebringer, entwined serpents, harvester)
Total TA 18% (thief+merits, +2 head, eponas, raider's earring, assassin's poulaines)
Expected parse if DA>TA
47% DA
9.54% TA
Expected parse if TA>DA
38.54% DA
18% TA
Actual parse results
total attack rounds: 905
36.84% DA
14.27% TA
From this data it seems most likely that Triple attack is overproccing Double attack. Going back now to increase the sample size.
TA + DA Parsing
TA + DA parsing
This is great news! =) Thanks for doing the testing.
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Phoenix.Kirana said:
Did a parse today to get some data on Triple attack overproccing Double attack, results were promising. I had a lot more stacked Double attack this time, which allowed for much more visible results. Total DA 47% (/war, eponas, brutal, atheling, anguinus, plaguebringer, entwined serpents, harvester) Total TA 18% (thief+merits, +2 head, eponas, raider's earring, assassin's poulaines) Expected parse if DA>TA 47% DA 9.54% TA Expected parse if TA>DA 38.54% DA 18% TA Actual parse results total attack rounds: 905 36.84% DA 14.27% TA From this data it seems most likely that Triple attack is overproccing Double attack. Going back now to increase the sample size.
Where are you getting 47% DA from?
/war(10) Epon(3) brutal(5) atheling(3) angui(1) plague(2) entwined(5) harvester (5). Should be roughly ~34% DA. Im not sure how this may affect the outcome of your tests.
Ifrit.Hitoseijuro said:
Phoenix.Kirana said:
Did a parse today to get some data on Triple attack overproccing Double attack, results were promising. I had a lot more stacked Double attack this time, which allowed for much more visible results. Total DA 47% (/war, eponas, brutal, atheling, anguinus, plaguebringer, entwined serpents, harvester) Total TA 18% (thief+merits, +2 head, eponas, raider's earring, assassin's poulaines) Expected parse if DA>TA 47% DA 9.54% TA Expected parse if TA>DA 38.54% DA 18% TA Actual parse results total attack rounds: 905 36.84% DA 14.27% TA From this data it seems most likely that Triple attack is overproccing Double attack. Going back now to increase the sample size.
Where are you getting 47% DA from?
/war(10) Epon(3) brutal(5) atheling(3) angui(1) plague(2) entwined(5) harvester (5). Should be roughly ~34% DA. Im not sure how this may affect the outcome of your tests.
I was under the impression that Minor was 5% and Major was 10%. Wasn't VV (DA+ Minor) proven to be 5%?
Anyways I've added another 527 attack rounds with almost identical results.
36.88% DA
14.83% TA
If hito speaks truth, this shows pretty consistent values for DA, while TA is slightly underproccing (But only by about half what it should be, assuming DA is overwriting it), but I highly doubt DA from atma is as underwhelming as he suggests.
Err what parser are you using and what is your attack speed etc? With Kparser it used to tell me I was TAing on WAR cus it couldn't keep up etc so if you are blindly taking parser results then it has zero basis for use as fact, if you are eyeballing and manually recording results then bravo.
Cerberus.Starr said:
Err what parser are you using and what is your attack speed etc? With Kparser it used to tell me I was TAing on WAR cus it couldn't keep up etc so if you are blindly taking parser results then it has zero basis for use as fact, if you are eyeballing and manually recording results then bravo.
I know about this quite well from playing with my parser in the past. I used a 366 delay staff and hecatomb gear to make sure attack rounds did not interfere with eachother.
Isnt the simple fact that DA/TA dont have increasing returns. Stacking more does not yield 1:1 return.
So the more DA you stack, the more you lose.
The fact that you can sit and claim 1% of TA can proc more then 1% of DA is just ..... nvm.
Heres a question.
What weighs more, 1000 lbs of rocks or 1000 lbs of feathers.
Thats pretty much what your doing.
So the more DA you stack, the more you lose.
The fact that you can sit and claim 1% of TA can proc more then 1% of DA is just ..... nvm.
Heres a question.
What weighs more, 1000 lbs of rocks or 1000 lbs of feathers.
Thats pretty much what your doing.
Odin.Lowblow said:
Isnt the simple fact that DA/TA dont have increasing returns. Stacking more does not yield 1:1 return.
So the more DA you stack, the more you lose.
The fact that you can sit and claim 1% of TA can proc more then 1% of DA is just ..... nvm.
Heres a question.
What weighs more, 1000 lbs of rocks or 1000 lbs of feathers.
Thats pretty much what your doing.
So the more DA you stack, the more you lose.
The fact that you can sit and claim 1% of TA can proc more then 1% of DA is just ..... nvm.
Heres a question.
What weighs more, 1000 lbs of rocks or 1000 lbs of feathers.
Thats pretty much what your doing.
ummm I don't think you understand the meaning of this parse. The issue here is that TA and DA can both proc at the same time. What I'm trying to find out is which one takes priority in the case that this happens. The current belief, from what I had heard, was that DA will take priority. If this is true it creates a major problem for thieves who are capable of stacking large amounts of both. The fact that stacking more on top of existing stats does not increase DPS by a linear amount means nothing in terms of this parse, as adding 1% DA to 1% DA still yields 2% DA and so forth.
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Maybe you should actually try reading and understanding what he's testing before shooting off idiotic nonsensical posts.
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Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
Maybe you should actually try reading and understanding what he's testing before shooting off idiotic nonsensical posts.
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Bahamut.Dasva said:
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Odin.Lowblow said:
So the more DA you stack, the more you lose.
Not only does what you're saying have nothing to do with this thread, but I'm guessing you don't know what decreasing returns actually means.
whats the maximum DA you should stack before it starts giving a decreasing return?
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said:
whats the maximum DA you should stack before it starts giving a decreasing return?
Diminishing returns in this sense only means that the DA or TA that you already have cannot proc at the same time as the DA or TA that you are adding in. For example: if you have 10% DA and want to add a piece of gear that has +5% DA, that additional 5% only has a 90% window to proc in, because the original 10% will already be proccing in the other 10%. So, the addition of 5% DA is only a (90 x .05)= 4.5% increase OVER YOUR PREVIOUS DA However, it still increases your average extra attacks per 100 rounds by 5.
Now that that's cleared up, let's reiterate that diminishing returns has nothing to do with the purpose of this test, and stop discussing it.
Now that that's cleared up, let's reiterate that diminishing returns has nothing to do with the purpose of this test, and stop discussing it.
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Now Quad Attack plz.I've been assuming it gets higher priority too.
There is a post on allak that did the same with a very large sample size.
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=10&mid=129310927451482981&page=1
Quote:
Ok here's some test results. All tests were preformed as a naked THF90/WAR45 single wielding an ash club. Target mob was the Zvahl Fortalice, since it doesn't fight back and I could go afk while testing.
Data:
Total attack rounds= 8625
Total single attack rounds= 7020 (81.39%)
Total double attack rounds= 754 (8.74%)
Total triple attack rounds= 851 (9.87%)
These %'s have been almost exactly the same since my last post at 1265 attack rounds. The data almost exactly reflects what you would expect to see if your hypothesis was TA has higher priority than DA. I would have expected 10% TA rate, 9% DA rate and 81% single attack rate, and I am very close to thoes numbers. I would personally feel comftorable ending the test right there but my data seems to disprove something that the ffxi community thought to be true for 7+ years, so i will continue testing to get a larger sample size.
But as it stands right now I feel completly comftorable making this statement. Triple attack has a higher priority than double attack.
Data:
Total attack rounds= 8625
Total single attack rounds= 7020 (81.39%)
Total double attack rounds= 754 (8.74%)
Total triple attack rounds= 851 (9.87%)
These %'s have been almost exactly the same since my last post at 1265 attack rounds. The data almost exactly reflects what you would expect to see if your hypothesis was TA has higher priority than DA. I would have expected 10% TA rate, 9% DA rate and 81% single attack rate, and I am very close to thoes numbers. I would personally feel comftorable ending the test right there but my data seems to disprove something that the ffxi community thought to be true for 7+ years, so i will continue testing to get a larger sample size.
But as it stands right now I feel completly comftorable making this statement. Triple attack has a higher priority than double attack.
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Bahamut.Bayan said:
There is a post on allak that did the same with a very large sample size.
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=10&mid=129310927451482981&page=1
Quote:
Ok here's some test results. All tests were preformed as a naked THF90/WAR45 single wielding an ash club. Target mob was the Zvahl Fortalice, since it doesn't fight back and I could go afk while testing.
Data:
Total attack rounds= 8625
Total single attack rounds= 7020 (81.39%)
Total double attack rounds= 754 (8.74%)
Total triple attack rounds= 851 (9.87%)
These %'s have been almost exactly the same since my last post at 1265 attack rounds. The data almost exactly reflects what you would expect to see if your hypothesis was TA has higher priority than DA. I would have expected 10% TA rate, 9% DA rate and 81% single attack rate, and I am very close to thoes numbers. I would personally feel comftorable ending the test right there but my data seems to disprove something that the ffxi community thought to be true for 7+ years, so i will continue testing to get a larger sample size.
But as it stands right now I feel completly comftorable making this statement. Triple attack has a higher priority than double attack.
Data:
Total attack rounds= 8625
Total single attack rounds= 7020 (81.39%)
Total double attack rounds= 754 (8.74%)
Total triple attack rounds= 851 (9.87%)
These %'s have been almost exactly the same since my last post at 1265 attack rounds. The data almost exactly reflects what you would expect to see if your hypothesis was TA has higher priority than DA. I would have expected 10% TA rate, 9% DA rate and 81% single attack rate, and I am very close to thoes numbers. I would personally feel comftorable ending the test right there but my data seems to disprove something that the ffxi community thought to be true for 7+ years, so i will continue testing to get a larger sample size.
But as it stands right now I feel completly comftorable making this statement. Triple attack has a higher priority than double attack.
Yes, I've seen this information, but it's hard to take the information seriously because the expected variations are so small (1% changes). I used much larger values of TA and DA to make the variance clear.
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said:
Now Quad Attack plz.I've been assuming it gets higher priority too.
This would be quite hard to do, as the only quad attack gear available is 3%, and it is on a dagger. I would need to stack a lot of slow+ gear or atmas to make sure the parser did not screw up. Might be possible with lots of hecatomb and sea daughter atma, i'll look into it later.
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