Thf Af3 Set Bonus

A few people have explained diminishing returns, but not very clearly. DA and TA are considered to have diminishing returns not because the more you stack, the less your dps, but the more marginal increase in either, the less impact it will have on your dps. For example:

100 rounds
+10 DA (10 total) = 110 hits = 10% increase in dps
+10 DA (20 total) = 120 hits = 9% increase
+10 DA (30 total) = 130 hits = 8.3% increase

100 rounds
+10 TA (10 total) = 120 hits = 20% increase
+10 TA (20 total) = 140 hits = 16% increase
+10 TA (30 total) = 160 hits = 14% increase

etc.

Delay reduction, on the other hand, is a common example of increasing returns.

1000 delay
+50% haste (50% total) = 500 delay = 100% increase in dps
+16% haste (66% total) = 333 delay = 200% increase
+9% haste (75% total) = 250 delay = 300% increase

He never said he didn't use ANY hp atmas to hit 3k, just that you don't need over 4k hp to survive most mobs. Nor did he ever say he had over 3K hp at all times. He also said "practically all mobs" meaning there are some exceptions where 3k is not enough hp to tank effectively.

My mithra thf/nin has 8/8 hp merits as well as 5/6 abyssites of merit. I have 2724 hp with just cruor buffs in heroes zones and 2888 if I swap to my max hp tanking set (turban, 3/5 homam and ritter). He also has 5/6 abyssites of merit and if he also merited max hp 8 times then one hp atma would take him right to the 3k mark. Granted I have closer to 2500 hp in scars and 2200 hp in visions areas, but I see nothing wrong with his statements. Everything he said is believable.

2200 HP is plenty to tank stuff in my evasion/mdt set

TP set i have about 2100?

Sure it's enough unless a mob does 3k dmg... and you are losing 70 everytime you hit it...

Honestly this combo would rape. Have thought about almost this exact combo before and have been after it ever since. This set along with atmas and merits would put you at a 45 % triple attack rate. Meaning almost every attack round one of your weapons should be triple attacking. Having the entire set of +2 drastically increases the rate at which its set affect procs, I wouldnt swap out any of it.. The talk about VV is kinda dumb and that its 2% regain would offer more than an additional 10% triple attack could offer. With this set it should take anywhere from 4 to 5 attack rounds to gain 100% tp. The faster you gain TP the more lame 2% regain is. By the time you build TP to ws the regain would have given you an additional 4tp that the 10% triple attack wouldn't. Most people would say that makes all the difference. I say no because we are not TPing here with a 2 hander and trying to reach an X hit build we are talking about THF dual weild. The DA you are missing out on is far surpassed by the same quantity of triple attack you are acquiring. Although the triple attack is diminishing more than the 10% DA, the diminish from 35 to 45 is exceptionally small. We aren't at 75%+ here people, lets get real. And besides.... its TRIPLE attack which is better than DA ... that should be easy to see I hope. The only thing really worth talking about is the 50 str lost. This is combated a little bit by the 50 att gained from alpha omega, and would be difficult to see how much we are loosing bc of it and gaining from all the triple attack and the insane bonus from the +2 set. I'm almost 100% confident that its beaten out bc now all your WS will be at the cap of 9 hits every time (statistically speaking). Whoever proposed that the drop in haste and DA would diminish tp return needs to think a little harder and learn to add a bit. The set has 23% haste and 0 DA.... ok so thats 2% haste which I will talk about in a sec... but did you add all the numbers and see a 45% triple attack? 10% triple is very similar to having 20% DA. So whatever DA we are loosing you have to remember is half as effective as the gain from triple attack would be. So match the numbers up and then we can talk. Also if DA>TA the DA drastically interferes with the proc rate of TA therefore ruining the set bonus and the whole point of gearing.

Look at this, suppose you use this set but swap stuff out like belt, back, and earring we are looking at a 13% total DA (Athel+Twilight+brutal) This might seam awesome bc they are potent great items. But we are gearing super wrong here. This is formula for actual TA, given DA.

TArate - [ {DArate X TArate X 100hits} / 100percent ]

so .45 - [ {.13 X .45 X 100hits} / 100percent ] = 0.3915

meaning an actual TA rate of 39.15. The rate before given espona is 43.65. So total loss from +10%DA is -4.5%TA(or 9%DA"ish" when "converted"). SO... many would think that's better bc 10 gain > 9 loss, buttt you cant proc the +2 set on DA. Also the DA will hurt your WS damage when it procs bc all your WS will be at 9 hits already(if using DE and Eviscer.) given your TA rate. and reducing your WS damage by about 6-8%

The 2% loss in haste is really the only thing that upsets me. I would propose (if you have all these items) trying out rapidus as offhand for the haste and TP gain and lower delay. Also the faster you attack, the more you can TA over time and proc the set. If TA comes before DA then I would obviously swap bullwhip with Twlight, Cuchy with Atheling, and swap the raider earring with brutal bc its about 2.2x more effective. And obviously if you have Twash and/or relic those would be weapons of choice, but that's fairly unrealistic even for one.

Hope I didnt ramble too much, I tried cutting like 90% of the math from this to help explain more simply. If you wanna know where I got my numbers from PM me.

9 hit ws?

Personally I don't have Apocalypse yet but when I get it I really wanna try out the following atma combo.

Razed Ruins + Scorpion Queen + Apocalypse.

That has a lot of potential IMO. I will never take RR off for DD and I agree that apocalypse is just awesome, and I think sTP + 20 coupled with the 10% crit rate is the perfect icing on the proverbial cake.

1832 hp in tp set... with 5/6 abyssite of merit and 8/8 hp merits (it is in fact the reason I recently took out all my mp merits... again that and I'm so super capped lol)

which mob? readjust shell/protect with bar spells + appropriate atma and you're fine

Brulo. Shell V, barfira from a whm and again I'd have to set at least 2 hp atmas to unsure it wouldn't just kill me even then I'd be chancing it. And if you are using 2-3 atmas for just hp... well I doubt I could've kept hate considering how much healing I'd need.

Then theres the mobs that like to spam agas and then immediately tp you and maybe even get a high melee hit in before anyone can cure.

Seriously do you not fight harder nms or only tier 1 stuff?

lol you act like i only fight tier 1 NMs GTFO

if you're doing brulo and you're that worried put on atma of brother wolf shell V barfira + fulll MDT set and you're good to go. GTFO if you think i only tank T1 stuff. I tank EVERYTHING. You sir are clearly doing it wrong.

Not everyone has every atma and resist build/set... Tank everything eh? I think that's a far cry from true. And there is no way nothing hasn't killed you with that low of hp if you had

Don't know if this has been brought up before but AF+2 set bonus can proc during SA or TA..
Pix was with RR/SS/Apoc
Can't get a direct link to pix but here you go....

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/UGMP-QuT1GE-RGVb5sfrezgY3X_f4CqKKQrBv7olxCc?feat=directlink

The problem with trading GH for Scorpion Queen is losing the 50 Agi and Counter+. 50 Agi is giving you a huge bonus to Trick attack and evasion, as well as subtle blow and enemy crit rate-. The counter bonus helps a lot when tanking as well.

Holy crap at that SA.

Weird thought it was only supposed to proc on the last 2 hits of the triple attack. SA AC goooooooooooo

Try again, i have~ kirana has seen me do it

Back on the topic of set bonus, I always see my procs occurring on all 3 hits of the triple attack, not just the 2nd and 3rd. Is wiki just wrong?

I didn't use AC before that, so i guess it can proc on the first hit as well

The set bonus definitely can proc on all three hits. I've noticed three consecutive triple the damage attacks multiple times. There's no question it can affect all three swings.


I don't consider evasion too important when I'm tping in a standard setup because I have an evasion set on me if need be, and regular mobs don't have the capacity to kill me. If it can hit me in my evasion set then there's nothing the GH can do to protect me in my standard tp setup. I consider utsusemi recasting more important than worrying about evasion when tping and worst case scenario I either get a cure or throw in the stronghold if I'm soloing. Likewise the counter is nice but not necessary and I've been using abyssea to semi-afk cap my parry skill. I simply take an earth staff, tavy tacos, and sub /war to add defender with stronghold/impenetrable/mounted champion and a few misc defense equips. I pull 5-6 Murrain Chigoes and just afk and let them do their thing and come back every few minutes to put defender back up. I've gained over 50 levels of parry that way and it procs a lot now.

I'm not sure how to quantify the agi bonus on the subtle blow/enemy crit rate. Granted I'm a mithra, but with 3 furtherence my agility hovers around 130 without extra help. Has there been any conclusive data on whether or not the subtle blow effect is a check on your agility versus a mobs stat, or a straight up more agility == more SB? And do we know how strong the SB effect caps at?

Of course if I'm tanking I'll probably consider a different atma setup, but that already deviates from a standard setup for traditional tp burn atmas anyway.

Gnarled Horn reports :Minor (20% rate) on wiki and Scorpion Queen, :Minor, reports 10% rate on Critical Hit Rate.

Is Gnarled Horn typo'd, or which is correct I wonder?

Hmm, GH says Major in japanese, typo in the wiki or in the game?

Yes... 5 hit ws +4 hits makes a cap of 9 hits on evisc and DE which is reached 100% of the time (statistically speaking) with .45% TA.

I believe he's referring to the fact that the game caps ws's at 8 hits.

Also not sure what your 100% of the time statistic comes from. Guessing it doesn't take into account that TA/DA can't proc on every hit of a WS.

Except ws cap at 8 hits. Also where are you getting this +4 from? 1 from offhand 2 from triple attack... Also TA can only proc once on ws iirc so it would still be 45%.

Lol are you for real? I use HP abyssites to reach 3k HP yes i never said in my statement i didnt. As for noob dasa saying you cant keep hate with out dd atmas essentially, do you even control your pt?

Or do you engage a mob and say to your DDs "right were gona trigger EVERYONE SPAM SO I DONT HAVE HATE"

using thf abilities during fight and ws at 800-1k each time on a mob without dd atmas you can keep hate perfectly fine, regardless of tank if you have blms power nuking a mob over and over your gona lose hate your comment is just rediculous.

Why purposely limit yourself? Why not just get a tank that doesn't need to use 2-3 hp atmas and get one that can equip DD ones? Also heard of hate resets? Or needing frequent cure.

Or ***why not just get a blu with triple evasion atmas on!?!

frequesnt cure isnt an issue... why do you keep saying it...

and I am not limiting myself when tanking

Sang scythe HP + crit hit plus emnity plus
1000 needles dex + HP plus
Tower Hp plus

+ marina pizza = tank almost any mob

you sir need to stop talking about tanking when you clearly have not tanked anything relevant in this game.

Hate reset? i think of only 3 mobs I think that has been said a tp gives a hate reset and those mobs especially bugard nm for sobek KI is just a joke....